Now I get it...

[PonoBill]

I almost decided not to write this given that the Trump thread isn't in the recent posts list. I hope it stays gone. But I had an epiphany today, watching the video of the Hamilton incident. In all the media, the only mention of the booing when Pence's presence was mentioned and the lead actor read a statement directed at him, was the actor himself saying "there's no cause for booing" or words to that effect. But the crowd did boo, and continued to.

The lead actor called it "a conversation", but a lecture isn't a conversation. If he wanted a conversation he could have made an invitation for Pence to meet with the cast. He called him out, in front of the crowd, and while the words were polite, the meaning was clear and confrontational.

I don't have any problem with that, and I don't have a problem with people choosing to boo Pence (though I think it's incredibly stupid). I just realized what it means, and why the democratic party has been decimated in every place that counts--totally tone deaf. And too arrogant to understand what a caricature they have become. The media is screaming about Trump continuing to harp on this. And everywhere but in the few remaining blue states, they sound like idiots and Trump sounds like a guy standing up for his choice of VP. How can they not hear that? Simple, they are lying to themselves as well as to us. They didn't focus on the disrespect shown to VP-elect Pence, they loved it. And they don't mention it because it doesn't support the notion that Trump is a maniac.

If they plan to crawl back to any position of power, they need to stop listening to their own echo chamber--which is working really well now that it's nearly empty--and understand that there are a large number of people in this county that think they are arrogant, clueless, dicks.

If they have any hope of curbing Trump they need to understand their position and start focusing on substance--not whether he does a few tweets. It's funny to see twenty news outlets going totally screwball, convening panels, creating special graphics, all saying that he's over-reacting and not focusing on issues he needs to pay attention to, when it's three tweets, about forty letters each. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so typical.

[Weasels wake]

And then there was the un-American Music Awards.
I'll just leave it at that.

[LaPerouseBay]

/
In all the media, the only mention of the booing when Pence's presence was mentioned and the lead actor read a statement directed at him, was the actor himself saying "there's no cause for booing" or words to that effect. But the crowd did boo, and continued to.
/

Mark Kennedy, AP,  Maui Times this Sunday.

"A mixture of boos and cheers could be heard as Pence took his seat."

I don't know if that contradicts your statement.  Your sentences occasionally are missing entire words that can shift the meaning completely. 

But I am a stickler for detail.

I do agree with the gist of your post. Good stuff.

   

George Will's opinion piece on Sunday was sobering.

College kids don't know the basics about US history? 

Truly bizarre.

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/4608062-155/george-f-will-did-academia-help

[SlatchJim]

I always enjoy reading your take on things Bill.  I mostly agree.

I'd be happy if all Trump did was subtract from the government.
I'd like a tax code that I could physically read in an afternoon, not one so large I'd never get through it during my lifetime.
I'd like the feds to stop taking responsibility for every bad decision individuals make.
I'd also love to clean out the cabinet (combine some departments and dump others like Housing and Urban Development, Education).

That would be a start. Hey, he's pretty good at firing people from what I hear.

The crap with Pence at "Hamilton" was just out of place.

[stoneaxe]

I kind of wish I had never started that thread.....funny thing is there never really was an answer to the original post in the 70+ pages of responses...

The media sucks plain and simple....all of it, right and left. I'd call them whores but that gives a bad name to prostitutes. Ladies of the evening sell their bodies for $. The press sells their soul for controversy, clicks and ideology. They are the primary cause of the angry divide in the country today.

They'll never get it....they are supposedly making motions to try and better understand the other side but they are far too arrogant and self centered to change. Trump is going to screw with them beyond belief....people are shocked that he ripped them apart in his big meeting.....why should he show anything but disdain for them? They are screaming about twitter because it's their worst nightmare....he's going to go around them. they just made themselves even less relevant.

[Bulky]

Hate that things have transpired in our country to where I have great apprehension from even chiming in on a political thread.  There is such silo-ization, hair-trigger umbrage and minor incidents built up into episodes of outrage.

I think I get what you're saying, Pono.  That said, I just don't get the Hamilton bruhaha.  Part of life as an elected official in a representative government is hearing regularly from people regarding the issues they care about.  I'm around local government a fair amount and just about every public meeting starts with public comment--anyone can come and talk about anything.  I've often marveled at friends and acquaintances in public office or appointed commissions ability to sit there and listen.  Sometimes it's thoughtful but other times turns into berating about some fringe concern.  Whether or not we agree, this basic mechanism to make those in government aware without repercussion is a very important thing.  Berating someone for having a differing opinion or discouraging them from expressing it is very concerning.

Pence was no longer in the room, but even if he were--given his public service, I imagine there hasn't been a week when there haven't been several passionate groups coming and making him aware of their issue.  Gonna happen alot more when you're Vice President and even more if you happen to be his boss.  It's nothing to get insulted over, just listen.  The only critique that could be made is the choice of venue, but an official of that stature has to accept that's probably part of the territory simply by going out in public.  Don't think I've heard any outrage from Pence on the incident.  I'd like to think it's because he's a big boy and understands the game.

Sure, the boos were unfortunate but at this point I don't think any side can claim the high ground there.  The actor separated himself from that.  Can't do much about the general public, but I'm sure people from the other side of the aisle get that too.  I think that most people of a certain stature just accept that it's part of the territory. 

[Admin]

Apologies for any typos.  I am using one hand to craft this response and sipping at a Civet with the other.  Not only do we elitist liberals take great joy in looking down on all of you but we certainly can't be bothered with coffee that hasn't already been shat out at least once.  How else could we know that it works?

There is a lot happening with the Hamilton ruckus, some of it genuine, some of it new standard issue partisan rhetoric and some of it media contrived putrescence.

Focusing on the real.  The fellow who is playing Hamilton is a gay man, who is HIV positive, in a largely minority cast.  They understand that they have a lot to fear from Mike Pence. The cast had a moment to project a message that would be heard and they used it.  Bravo.

Drip, drip, drip.  Trump's candidacy has slowly eroded edges that need to be very acute where racism, bigotry, misogyny, and intolerance are concerned.  Intelligence takes many forms and Trump has an amazing social intelligence.   That coupled with an absent regard for all others (individuals and groups) has allowed him to very successfully create a disorienting fog around issues that typically would be (and should be) off limits.  Push to just to far, pull back to just shy of enough.  All the while advancing the rhetoric of hate.  The occurrence itself of having this accepted once mists the air.  If you ever wondered how those historical horrors came to pass, take note now. 

We can't allow the mistake of the Democrat party leaders disregarding an entire segment of the population to justify any level of acceptance of the now rising level of hate speech (and actions) that we are seeing.  Those are two distinct things and one does not palliate the other.

You know, we have a guest in the audience this evening,and Vice President-elect Pence, I see you walking out, but I hope you will hear us just a few more moments. There’s nothing to boo here, ladies and gentlemen. There’s nothing to boo here. We’re all here sharing a story of love. We have a message for you, sir. We hope that you will hear us out. because this message needs to be spread far and wide.  Vice President-elect Pence, we welcome you, and we truly thank you for joining us here at ‘Hamilton: An American Musical.’ We really do.  We, sir, we are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights, sir. But we truly hope this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and work on behalf of all of us. All of us. Again, we truly thank you truly for seeing this show, this wonderful American story told by a diverse group of men and women of different colors, creeds and orientations.”

[PonoBill]

It isn't just the presidency that was lost. If the democratic party is going to be relevant, it has to appeal to more people than those who sip civet while they type. How they lost that so totally I really don't know. Just a pendulum swing? Doesn't seem likely, if it is, it's a wild one. They better find some candidates that at least seem honest and real. Not another Hillary, not another Nancy Pelosi, not another President Obama. The Republican party is going to be on a wild ride for two years. If they fuck it up they'll lose it all and be muzzled. The reaction to the Hamilton tempest in a teacup is a really bad start. The incident itself? Who cares. The reaction--wow.

[Admin]

it has to appeal to more people than those who sip civet while they type.

I'll respond in a minute.  My manscaper is over and she is pruning my back.

[SUPcheat]

Civet? Who even knows what that is?

[southwesterly]

Civet? Who even knows what that is?

Once you cut out the crap, it's just expensive coffee.

[PonoBill]

It's a cruel use of those poor Civets. I only drink monkey-picked tea.

Manscraper? Will they do feet?

[SpaceCoastPaul]

Moral outrage is great for media ratings / profits.

[surfshaver]

Hi Bill, I posted a couple of times on the other thread. 

I agree with you that the Dems need an overhaul, but it seems tricky to me given that Hillary, despite her much discussed glaring weaknesses and unforced errors, is going to garner 2 million more votes than Trump.

In fact if we look at the numbers, there was no "Trump Surge" but rather a dramatic fall off in Dem votes from Obama.  How much of that was simply due to Hillary herself, it's hard to tell.  But as I've said before, Bernie's rise should give Dems a clue.

The post-Watergate Dems basically lost their connection to the people as they shifted more and more to the center and became co-opted by Wall Street and the academic edifice (ie The Ivy League, U Chicago Economists) creating the intellectual orthodoxy supporting Wall Street and Corporate America.

The Clinton way was to be liberal in terms of social issues and republicans in drag when it comes to economic issues.  This worked in the 90's as we had a long run of economic growth fueled by technologic change, globalization, and increased deregulation of finance.

Its largely these three factors that have resulted in the greatest extremity of wealth inequality since the gilded age.

The foundation of the American social contract is socio-economic mobility.  It's the reason why at least until now, true Socialism hasn't taken root.  As the old saying goes: A worker in a British factory sees the owner drive by in his Rolls Royce, and wants to burn the factory down.  An American worker sees the owner drive by in his Cadillac, and works harder so one day he'll own his own factory and drive his own Cadillac.

Except now more and more people in the US don't think they'll ever own anything, much less a factory.  This is what they mean when they feel the system is rigged.

Economically, we are continuing to witness the primacy of capital over labor.  It's gone from difficult to almost impossible to legislate against this, especially with the decline of manufacturing in the US and the Unions which were part and parcel of the industrial economy. 

Because of this fact, genuine populist policy is going to be hard to define.  It's going to mean supporting affordable health care, education, and smart but limited regulation.  The Dems have to be unafraid to oppose Corporate America and Wall St. in favor of the middle class, not be Republicans in drag.  Warren and Sanders are pointing the way. 

[Admin]

It isn't just the presidency that was lost. If the democratic party is going to be relevant, it has to appeal to more people than those who sip civet while they type. How they lost that so totally I really don't know. Just a pendulum swing? Doesn't seem likely, if it is, it's a wild one. They better find some candidates that at least seem honest and real. Not another Hillary, not another Nancy Pelosi, not another President Obama. The Republican party is going to be on a wild ride for two years. If they fuck it up they'll lose it all and be muzzled. The reaction to the Hamilton tempest in a teacup is a really bad start. The incident itself? Who cares. The reaction--wow.

About a week before the election I watched (CNN) a panel of 10 experts bandy about (we say stuff like that) views on the likelihood that the Republicans would never be able to regain the presidency. 

Uppp, need to go pick a color.  Greige is so tricky.  Elephant's Breath or Chatham Mist?  Back shortly.