Author Topic: The electoral college  (Read 17458 times)

SeldomScene

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The electoral college
« on: November 16, 2016, 08:59:02 AM »
I see where Sen Barbara Boxer (D) has introduced a bill to eliminate the Electoral College.  Wonder why she didn't introduce that bill in 1992 when Bill Clinton won the Presidency with just 43 per cent of the popular vote?  In the Electoral College system, a candidate must get over 50 percent of the votes to win.  A tie goes to the House for a vote.  If, in 1992, we relied on the popular vote, it would have either gone to a run off without Ross Perot siphoning off 19 percent of the Bush votes, or it would have gone to the House of Reps, which was controlled by the Democrats at that time, depending on what the rules would be.  Should we eliminate the Electoral College? 

tautologies

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 09:17:45 AM »

Yeah I am not sure why they are attacking the electoral college. Shouldn't they be looking at gerrymandering instead? The electoral college was made to protect the US against electing crazy (fascists) so this is really their time to shine.

Weasels wake

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2016, 11:19:57 AM »
Barbara Boxer is on her way out, she only has about two months left, so she has nothing to loose.
That would require passage of both houses by a super majority (60% min, I'm pretty sure), then sign by POTUS before it became law.  But it wouldn't really be a law in the common sense, it would be a change to the constitution, aka a constitutional amendment.
Good luck with that Babs.

Also, this is the fifth time the president was elected by the electoral college only.
Look at the election results map by counties, the big red area (mostly rural, fly over country) between the two blue coastal blobs needs to be represented, as well as have an active campaign in there by the candidates. If it was popular vote only, that big red area would be totally ignored on both counts. Their votes wouldn't amount to a hill of beans, and they would have never seen the candidates, thus resulting in no POTUS representation, because there would be no reason, the metro areas would hold all the power.
Hillary understood the system which is why she concentrated on the swing states, the right thing for her to do,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, but she still lost.
Which in itself, makes her loss even more significant.

They had it right when it was first designed, and it still holds true today, for the exact same reasons.
It takes a quiver to do that.

PonoBill

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2016, 11:32:26 AM »
Right on weasel. I wish these folks bitching about the electoral college would study up a bit on how and why it exists. It's one of the most remarkable features of our election process. Certainly every political entity has worked to screw it up. but it's resilient enough to actually still work well. The election results map from this election shows exactly how well. People claim that because the popular vote yielded different results from the Electoral result that it failed. That's nonsense--worked exactly as designed to protect the interests of all voters. You might not like the result, but you're not supposed to.

Odd though how few people actually understand the function, given that it's such an important part of our government. Or the fact that despite Hillary's concession, Trump still hasn't been elected President. Until the electors vote, there is no winner.  We vote to choose electors, not to choose a president.
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Weasels wake

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2016, 11:33:14 AM »
For those who want to hang their loss on the electoral college, there is something much bigger to be concerned about, that being all the losses that occurred at the state level, as the old say goes, "all politics is local".  The democrat party has a lot of rebuilding to do, the Obama administration didn't help the party as much as damaging it.  See chart.

For all the charts~
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/10/the-decimation-of-the-democratic-party-visualized/?postshare=8591479068142743&tid=ss_tw




« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 11:35:54 AM by Weasels wake »
It takes a quiver to do that.

stoneaxe

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2016, 01:17:42 PM »
I was listening to a discussion of that on NPR yesterday. The Dem bench is all but non-existent. Governerships and state legislatures all over have gone GOP.

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Night Wing

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2016, 04:44:43 PM »
That would require passage of both houses by a super majority (60% min, I'm pretty sure), then sign by POTUS before it became law.  But it wouldn't really be a law in the common sense, it would be a change to the constitution, aka a constitutional amendment

Close but no cigar. Below is the long and short of it with regards to abolishing the Electoral College.

Step 1: The Electoral College is enshrined in the 12th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and therefore requires a constitutional amendment, outlined in Article 5.

Step 2: Congress can propose an amendment with a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a constitutional convention called for by two-thirds of the state legislatures.

Step 3: It must be ratified by the legislatures of three-fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three-fourths.
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SeldomScene

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2016, 05:29:33 PM »
He did say Constitutional Amendment, didn't he?

 Not worthy of a new thread but news is reporting that some folks are having people sign a petition for Cali, Orygun, and Washington to secede and join Canada.  Should we let them back in the next time the Dems win the White House? I think someone tried that in 1861. Did these people pass fourth grade civics? 

supthecreek

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2016, 05:36:07 PM »
Nice video on the Electoral College

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6s7jB6-GoU


lucabrasi

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2016, 04:06:17 AM »
heck, there more people in some suburb of any city than in my state and we still get as many electoral votes as Vermont. Nice to be considered out in the middle of nowhere.

PonoBill

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2016, 09:07:10 AM »
Luca, the mathematics behind a popular vote makes it extremely easy to manipulate elections.

If you haven't already read "how not to be wrong", read it. There are many reasons why no country with a constitution crafted by reasoned and intelligent people, chooses candidates for powerful office with only a popular vote. In most countries the leader's are chosen by the political elite. Here's Bill Gate's review of the book: https://www.gatesnotes.com/Books/How-Not-to-be-Wrong

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lucabrasi

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2016, 09:53:48 AM »
Luca, the mathematics behind a popular vote makes it extremely easy to manipulate elections.

I get all that Bill and agree as well.

I have seen that book mentioned before and have thought about grabbing it but I think what I really need to read for my dyslexic head is "How to convey what you are thinking" or perhaps "saying what you mean to say." 
Seems my thoughts about it being a good thing were easily misinterpreted. Perhaps it came off as sarcasm?
Wonder if that has anything to do with why I think my wife never hears what I say? 


yugi

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2016, 10:05:41 AM »
...
There are many reasons why no country with a constitution crafted by reasoned and intelligent people, chooses candidates for powerful office with only a popular vote.
...

you had me at office.

Scrap the rest of that sentence and then we're talking democracy.

johnysmoke

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2016, 08:56:31 AM »
Meh, call me an elitist liberal, but it's the populated coasts and their strong economies that are footing the bill for the majority of taxes in this country. Not sure why someone's vote in the rust belt (who's state and economy is in the red) should count more than someone than say a Californian, who is part of the fifth strongest economy in the world. Seems backwards to me, especially considering the technology we now have available to us, to tally a popular vote.
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Bean

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Re: The electoral college
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2016, 08:53:14 PM »
Careful what you wish for JS, what might seem a trivial matter could have grave consequences.  Read the Federalist Papers (or at least take 5 min and Google federalism).  I guarantee you will see things in a better light.


 


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