Author Topic: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?  (Read 6321 times)

Beasho

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ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« on: November 08, 2016, 04:01:55 PM »
I broke my favorite board last week . . . in half.

So I walked into Stretch and said "I need a new board" make it just like this one:  My classic Jeff Clark 10' x 28" good for everything 8 - 18 ft

I said the only thing that I want that is unusual is to install ProBox's rather than Futures.  I keep blowing out my Futures boxes.

Then Stretch says "We install the Futures boxes using a high density insert pre-lamination.  Our futures installations are bomb-proof.  And those post lamination box SUCK.  They will always leak.  I will do what you want but I am telling you one little hit and there is going to be a micro crack that starts to leak water."

I would push back BUT:

1) STRETCH has built 1,000's of boards & he is one of the few board designers that is more of a scientist than an ART-ist.  He knows his stuff.

2) Truth be told of the 8 ProBox installations that I have done 4 have leaked.  I attributed this to using faster resin that cooked the core of the board.  I fixed this process with the last 3 installations but time will tell how they perform.  Although 2 of those repairs were in said 'broken board' above.

How have your experiences been with ProBox?

southwesterly

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2016, 04:29:23 PM »
Think of it as a numbers game. Stretch has done thousands of futures box installations. That’s what he does. He’s as good as anybody can get at it.

Go with the flow.

Make sure to post some pics of your new board. I love that kind of stuff.

PonoBill

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2016, 04:31:56 PM »
I would guess that stretch is building boards that are living on the edge of performance and durability, so I would trust his judgment for boards that live on the edge of performance and durability. It's also say that installing a futures box in your 1000th board is probably a lot faster and more secure than installing your first Probox.

I haven't seen any aspect of a Probox that I would conclude makes it a bad bet for most installations. But even though they are designed to be installed post lam, you don't have to do them that way--you can glass them in like any box. It just takes a little more care to expose the wavy insert slot. I'd put the blank insert in with some silicone grease on it, and then route it free after glassing.  If I ever put a fin box in that was going to have to withstand Mavericks level waves, I'd want to bed them in a good sized chunk of poly foam, and glass over them. What flavor they would be is an open question.

But you have to listen to your shaper about stuff like that.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2016, 05:12:00 PM »
I had 2 Proboxes leak in one customers board. He said he didn't hit anything. But more likely, he was unaware he hit something.

I have switched to Futures for all boards after some sledge hammer testing with ways to install them stronger than standard.

I thought I saw a photo once showing a high density foam insert being used that was no bigger than the flange on the Futures box. To me, that's not doing much. I think the photo I'm recalling was posted by Kirk, who has boards built by Stretch.

I'd trust Stretch, but go see how he does it and convince yourself it's sound engineering.

Bean

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2016, 05:53:50 PM »
This one took a pretty good hit and as you can see, the glass (2 layers 4oz s-glass) folded while the connection at the box remained intact.  I do realize that's just one box. 

Larry Allison

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2016, 06:43:55 PM »
I broke my favorite board last week . . . in half.

So I walked into Stretch and said "I need a new board" make it just like this one:  My classic Jeff Clark 10' x 28" good for everything 8 - 18 ft

I said the only thing that I want that is unusual is to install ProBox's rather than Futures.  I keep blowing out my Futures boxes.

Then Stretch says "We install the Futures boxes using a high density insert pre-lamination.  Our futures installations are bomb-proof.  And those post lamination box SUCK.  They will always leak.  I will do what you want but I am telling you one little hit and there is going to be a micro crack that starts to leak water."

I would push back BUT:

1) STRETCH has built 1,000's of boards & he is one of the few board designers that is more of a scientist than an ART-ist.  He knows his stuff.

2) Truth be told of the 8 ProBox installations that I have done 4 have leaked.  I attributed this to using faster resin that cooked the core of the board.  I fixed this process with the last 3 installations but time will tell how they perform.  Although 2 of those repairs were in said 'broken board' above.

How have your experiences been with ProBox?

First let me say, If you go to a Ford dealer and ask questions about a BMW. The Ford salesman is still going to try and sell you a Ford. Perfect example here.Future makes Stretch Fins!!!!!!!! No disrespect to Stretch!
Allison Race Fins

Beasho

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2016, 07:19:26 PM »
First let me say, If you go to a Ford dealer and ask questions about a BMW. The Ford salesman is still going to try and sell you a Ford. Perfect example here.Future makes Stretch Fins!!!!!!!! No disrespect to Stretch!

Talk to us. If I blow out a box I am replacing it with a ProBox. 

My latest install was dead straight, NO TOE.  With your boxes I can modify Cant and reverse fins running the flat side out, run with all symmetric foils test all the way around.  Frankly I think Futures suck.

I am just wary of telling STRETCH to EFF'ing do it.

Here is my current cache of ProBox'es NOT counting the 8 I've already installed.   
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 07:31:12 PM by Beasho »

Larry Allison

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 07:25:07 PM »
I broke my favorite board last week . . . in half.

So I walked into Stretch and said "I need a new board" make it just like this one:  My classic Jeff Clark 10' x 28" good for everything 8 - 18 ft

I said the only thing that I want that is unusual is to install ProBox's rather than Futures.  I keep blowing out my Futures boxes.

Then Stretch says "We install the Futures boxes using a high density insert pre-lamination.  Our futures installations are bomb-proof.  And those post lamination box SUCK.  They will always leak.  I will do what you want but I am telling you one little hit and there is going to be a micro crack that starts to leak water."

I would push back BUT:

1) STRETCH has built 1,000's of boards & he is one of the few board designers that is more of a scientist than an ART-ist.  He knows his stuff.

2) Truth be told of the 8 ProBox installations that I have done 4 have leaked.  I attributed this to using faster resin that cooked the core of the board.  I fixed this process with the last 3 installations but time will tell how they perform.  Although 2 of those repairs were in said 'broken board' above.

How have your experiences been with ProBox?

Beasho, If your board has a proper install guy Probox is installed almost exactly the same way a center 10 inch channel is installed and there are millions of them done a year first thing to think about. Next thing in EPS you need to seal the foam before with a paste of epoxy the lay a glass sock that comes up and aound the box and touches the bottom lamination of your board, like the 3 pics below.

What most lazy glass shops do is install with resin fill and hope nobody figures it out, Like the pic where the box is a chuck of epoxy.
Allison Race Fins

Larry Allison

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2016, 07:30:13 PM »
First let me say, If you go to a Ford dealer and ask questions about a BMW. The Ford salesman is still going to try and sell you a Ford. Perfect example here.Future makes Stretch Fins!!!!!!!! No disrespect to Stretch!

Talk to us. If I blow out a box I am replacing it with a ProBox. 

My latest install was dead straight, NO TOE.  With your boxes I can modify Cant and reverse fins running the flat side out, run with all symmetric foils test all the way around.  Frankly I think Futures suck.

I am just wary of telling STRETCH to F'ing do it.

Stretch already knows Future will fail which is why he said use high density foam. If you use High density foam with glass NO SYSTEM will FAIL. It's not the system it is the foam structure as you see here with these Futures.
Allison Race Fins

Larry Allison

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2016, 07:31:00 PM »
This one took a pretty good hit and as you can see, the glass (2 layers 4oz s-glass) folded while the connection at the box remained intact.  I do realize that's just one box.

NICE install Bean!!!!
Allison Race Fins

Larry Allison

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2016, 07:34:53 PM »
I broke my favorite board last week . . . in half.

So I walked into Stretch and said "I need a new board" make it just like this one:  My classic Jeff Clark 10' x 28" good for everything 8 - 18 ft

I said the only thing that I want that is unusual is to install ProBox's rather than Futures.  I keep blowing out my Futures boxes.

Then Stretch says "We install the Futures boxes using a high density insert pre-lamination.  Our futures installations are bomb-proof.  And those post lamination box SUCK.  They will always leak.  I will do what you want but I am telling you one little hit and there is going to be a micro crack that starts to leak water."

I would push back BUT:

1) STRETCH has built 1,000's of boards & he is one of the few board designers that is more of a scientist than an ART-ist.  He knows his stuff.

2) Truth be told of the 8 ProBox installations that I have done 4 have leaked.  I attributed this to using faster resin that cooked the core of the board.  I fixed this process with the last 3 installations but time will tell how they perform.  Although 2 of those repairs were in said 'broken board' above.

How have your experiences been with ProBox?

I have retro fitted more then 1000 boards alot from Futures like my friend Reid from Hawaii who is a super hard surfer on his equipment.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 07:38:34 PM by ProBox-Larry »
Allison Race Fins

Larry Allison

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2016, 07:44:40 PM »
First let me say, If you go to a Ford dealer and ask questions about a BMW. The Ford salesman is still going to try and sell you a Ford. Perfect example here.Future makes Stretch Fins!!!!!!!! No disrespect to Stretch!

Talk to us. If I blow out a box I am replacing it with a ProBox. 

My latest install was dead straight, NO TOE.  With your boxes I can modify Cant and reverse fins running the flat side out, run with all symmetric foils test all the way around.  Frankly I think Futures suck.

I am just wary of telling STRETCH to EFF'ing do it.

Here is my current cache of ProBox'es NOT counting the 8 I've already installed.   

Ask Stretch point blank to install your Proboxes with high Density foam and glass like the pics I posted and not to install them like FCS plugs using milled fiber!!!!!!!!!! If Stretch has any questions he can fill free to call me at the factory and I will help him do it right my number is 310-530-1383. I get tried of these people with their politics. Let me know how it goes my friend.
Allison Race Fins

Larry Allison

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2016, 07:47:17 PM »
I broke my favorite board last week . . . in half.

So I walked into Stretch and said "I need a new board" make it just like this one:  My classic Jeff Clark 10' x 28" good for everything 8 - 18 ft

I said the only thing that I want that is unusual is to install ProBox's rather than Futures.  I keep blowing out my Futures boxes.

Then Stretch says "We install the Futures boxes using a high density insert pre-lamination.  Our futures installations are bomb-proof.  And those post lamination box SUCK.  They will always leak.  I will do what you want but I am telling you one little hit and there is going to be a micro crack that starts to leak water."

I would push back BUT:

1) STRETCH has built 1,000's of boards & he is one of the few board designers that is more of a scientist than an ART-ist.  He knows his stuff.

2) Truth be told of the 8 ProBox installations that I have done 4 have leaked.  I attributed this to using faster resin that cooked the core of the board.  I fixed this process with the last 3 installations but time will tell how they perform.  Although 2 of those repairs were in said 'broken board' above.

How have your experiences been with ProBox?

Beasho, Does your center longbox in this pic of  your board leak? It is installed the same way as Probox!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: November 08, 2016, 07:51:39 PM by ProBox-Larry »
Allison Race Fins

Beasho

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2016, 07:51:01 PM »
Here was my latest install.  I routed out the entire front boxes.  Rebuilt the foam.  Applied 2 layers of Carbon Patch.  A trick I learned from STRETCH himself.

I applied the templates and routed out the ProBox Infinity holes.   Then I used 2 layers of glass cloth insert, as shown above, and did 2 applications of Epoxy with SLOW resin. e.g. half the cavity, then wait until cured and then filled the remainder.

It might look ugly but I DID expect it to hold. 

Unfortunately the front half of the board ripped off.


Beasho

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Re: ProBox Installations: Solid or Leaky?
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2016, 07:52:06 PM »
Then all my fin testing was summarily truncated by 12 ft @ 14.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNAybIFYPDs

 


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