Author Topic: Rough water race board  (Read 4879 times)

warmuth

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Rough water race board
« on: October 24, 2016, 04:38:13 PM »
  So I've sold my 14x29 Glide and the search is on for a smaller replacement. At 165 pounds, that board is just plain bigger than I need. Currently I have a 404 V3 which is listed as all conditions but my experience is that it most definitely is not. It can go upwind and downwind decently enough but not in between at all. Side chop has me paddling not just on one side but sideways period as the nose tries mightily to point downwind and confused waters really toss it about. The glide had no such issues, so I'm on to find a similar board but in the 25" range. The All Star and Sidewinder seem to be made for those types of conditions but at first glance they seem to suspiciously resemble the V3 with the big bulbous noses. The SIC FX would seem to be an easy choice but I'm not so sure about that 290 liter volume seeing as how thats 10 more than even the Glide which is a quite large board. Would the Sidewinder be as capable as the All Star and SIC in choppy ocean racing? Is the SIC's volume going to be an issue? Flat water performance is not a concern, the V3 goes well enough there.

Luc Benac

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2016, 05:31:50 PM »
I had some experience with two boards that I can recommend and I am 165 lbs.
On the racier side , I am fairly happy with my Blackfish on open waters (not my first choice for really flat water). This is a 14x26 and hugely stable.
I also used a Bark Downwinder and it is a very good all-around board that is working nicely in chop and it not slow. Depending on the type of fin you are using, side chop performance can be fairly good.

Cheers,

Luc
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

Eagle

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2016, 05:33:57 PM »
27.25 Bullet 14V2 is good - 28 M-14 better - but those are really DW specific boards.  I have both and consider them not to be good or preferred AW boards.  The 25AS was quite bulbous and would get blown in windy side chop.  The FX would probably go ok - but have not tested it firsthand.  It looks it might get tippy in adverse rough conditions and steep side chop.  So for a rough water race board - would consider our trusty M-14 for that.

But even our worst handing board for that - our deep vee Dom can be persuaded to deal with windy side chop in small doses.  Just need to position yourself accordingly and use paddle techniques to offset.  For long distances with side-on - it is a ton better with something like the M-14 with a very slender point nose though.  You only use a small amount of energy to fight off the wind - so you do save energy to extend your endurance like you experienced.  For volume - we have paddled many boards with way too much volume for our light weight - and have never found that to be much of an issue for us.  Many note that to be a major detriment - but we find that more volume just adds a ton more stability for us.

So basically for us - no board we have ever paddled does everything well.  And ones that purport to - do nothing well.  They are basically average at everything and great at nothing.  But after amassing 5 boards - we basically now have the right mix to do everything we need 95% of the time.  But certainly 5 boards is excessive to some - if not most paddlers.  But 5 is small to 15 - which A10 seems to have.   ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

PtBobSup

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2016, 05:54:23 PM »
Easy.  Ace.  Nothing else like it.  Rules all in messy conditions.

Area 10

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2016, 05:57:41 PM »
Actually, Eagle, I have 17: 15 Hard boards plus two inflatables :)

The local SUP rental place says that if I ever start lending boards out, they'd be out of business. I actually have more boards than they do!

Re: rough waters - Eagle is right about what works.

But what kind of conditions *exactly* are we talking about here? How strong is the wind and how big is the chop. Are there other factors that make the going tough (eg. rips or tides etc)?

There's a huge spread of difference in what people mean when they are talking about rough water.

Eagle

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2016, 07:04:22 PM »
Haha!  "A10 SUP Rentals" - by the hour day or week.  All brands. 

And yeah - took the words "rough water racing" to mean rough adverse ocean conditions.  Not "rough" in the sense - my Dominator could handle it in a pinch.  All relative for sure.  If I can stay dry - in my estimation - it is not "rough".  That becomes relatively docile conditions.   ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

warmuth

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2016, 07:08:15 PM »
  Good point. In general when the chop gets going shin to knee high, winds over getting up over 10mph,. A lot of emphasis is placed on downwind performance of these types of boards but aside from some knee high short period chop in the Indian River, which I can handle even on the V3, my downwinding will mostly be between buoys. This board will be for any of the open water/ocean races where the wind has kicked up, its blowing 12-15 and dealing with the resulting chop determines placing as much as anything else. As an example last weekend was a 20 mile paddle and I was on the Glide. The first 17 miles were into a headwind but the water was fairly calm as we had some protection due to the shoreline. Here the Glide was out of it's element, slow and heavy and had me cursing my choice. The last three miles however were in side chop, shin to knee starting to whitecap and 15mph or so winds. While I pretty much had to paddle on one side exclusively I also was able to hold a straight line and being that board is 29 inches wide there was never any issue with the chop actually tipping me.On the V3 I  have to almost quite literally paddle sideways as if I'm doing a buoy turn just to keep from pointing downwind. What I'm after at this point is a board that's not as big as the glide is but with the same behavior. Preferably not a total dog in the flats but I'm not after a one solution board. V3 when its calm to mild, and another board for when that one stops working.

Luc Benac

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2016, 07:41:11 PM »
This is what I use for that.
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

PonoBill

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2016, 09:03:41 PM »
Yeah, I've got one of those, though mine is 25". I'd say in rough water if you're gonna stay with 14' then an F14 with a rudder.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

warmuth

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2016, 02:45:35 AM »
  Area 10 I ran across your Bark Vapor review last night. That sounded like almost exactly the type of board I'm looking for.  If you still have it do all your initial impressions still hold with that board? As compared to the all star,
Fx, and sidewinder that one stands out based on how you described it as a bit more rough water oriented than the other three which seem to want to toe the flat water performance side slightly more than the Vapor.

Area 10

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2016, 11:51:36 AM »
  Area 10 I ran across your Bark Vapor review last night. That sounded like almost exactly the type of board I'm looking for.  If you still have it do all your initial impressions still hold with that board? As compared to the all star,
Fx, and sidewinder that one stands out based on how you described it as a bit more rough water oriented than the other three which seem to want to toe the flat water performance side slightly more than the Vapor.
Yep I love the Vapor, and I've covered very many miles in it in all conditions since that review without changing my mind. But it's a downwind board rather than an all-round ocean race board, really. The All Star, FX, and Sidewinder will be faster in flat water and small chop. The Vapor is certainly faster upwind and in general paddling than a heavily rockered DW board though, so it's no slouch. And downwind in small to medium conditions it is a complete delight and is very fast, catching just about anything going. So it kinda depends on what race conditions you are going in. If it's properly rough then the Vapor could serve you well. If it's just a bit of fairly mild chop then there may be faster boards.

warmuth

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2016, 06:52:01 PM »
  Well, I'll see shortly, I decided to go with the Vapor.The FX and Sidewinder just seem a little too biased towards flat water speed for what I want the board to cover. To be faster in the flat water I just keep coming to the conclusion that somethings got to give when it gets rough. The V3 can handle mild chop and flats or conditions in ocean races like I see in BoP race videos. Most races here won't have variable conditions so it'll either be smooth enough for the 404 or rough enough to justify the Vapor. My first race was an ocean race in which most people were on flat water style race boards and couldn't stay on them. I took third simply because I was on the Glide and was able to put consistent power down without worrying about losing balance. Downwind, upwind and cross chop all featured depending on which buoy you'd just went around. Those types of situations would seem to favor the Vapor over the FX or Sidewinder, slightly perhaps, but stability and handling was at a higher premium than outright speed.

 Like I mentioned, your review hit the particular points I was after, sounded very much like the Glide which was absolutely unfazed by just about anything, but smaller. I'd have never even bothered to look at any other boards had Naish actually offered a smaller size in that model.

Area 10

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2016, 01:50:46 AM »
Yeah Naish should ideally have offered the Glide in 29, 27 and 25" wide widths and GX construction. But that would have undermined the megabucks Javelins...However they would have sold squillions. Instead they kept it big and heavy and IMO promoted a less successful design as their headline board. We don't always get what is best for us IMO, and sometimes the marketing need to constantly reinvent the wheel means some good designs are not fully exploited.

warmuth

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2016, 03:07:03 PM »
 Took the vapor out for a bit today and of course the howling winds of the past month straight calmed down today so no proper rough water test yet. Through a bit of chop and some wind its definitely better behaved than the V3. The nice part is paddling past protected water and out into the chop the feeling of the board doesn't change, it hardly noticed the water just got rougher. Very good kick turning board, can be done from just about anywhere behind the handle. It's got a very quick initial tip, quicker than the V3 by some bit but if I stayed centered it did as well and was quite stable even going through the confused stuff and I could keep full power easily in every stroke. Side winds were no problem and such a welcome change from the 404. The one nitpick so far is the deck pad is slick, perhaps that needs to be broken in a bit. Flat water speed is a couple ticks off the V3 as expected but that's not the purpose I bought it for. Looking forward to some proper rough conditions on it.

Area 10

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Re: Rough water race board
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2016, 06:22:05 PM »
Glad you are enjoying the Vapor. Everything you say is true, really. The handling just gets better the rougher it is. The initial tip is less than on eg. a Sidewinder: in fact I think it's very stable for 26" wide.

The deck pad on mine isn't slippery or slick at all. In fact it's very good. So maybe yours is just new?

It really comes into it's own downwind in particular. It makes light downwinding (15-25 knots) an absolute pleasure - and speedy.

 


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