Author Topic: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing  (Read 5727 times)

Beasho

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2016, 02:47:18 PM »
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PonoBill

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2016, 06:49:09 PM »
I'd rather Kai was inspiring us to take safety more seriously rather than ignore risks. Now every bonehead who overestimates their own ability will think that unless you are foiling naked and on your own, you're not a man.

But he's young, and at the top of his game, and you can get away with all sorts then. When he's middle-aged and a tenacious girl called Melanoma has attached herself to him, and he's got kids who are relying on him, he'll start to feel a bit more vulnerable.

Foiling is for Kai like SUP was for Laird, I reckon. It's his chance to be known as a pioneer of sonething, and he's gonna strip off his top just like Laird and follow that path.

I was being kind of flippant, probably shouldn't be, there are good reasons to take safety seriously, as this summer proved all too well. Way too many dead people. What I should have said is that while leashes are important to our high-volume, wind catching boards, they probably do more harm than good on a tiny foilboard. Leashes used to be common in kitesurfing--now they aren't--more of a hazard than a benefit. No one uses leashes for windsurfing--they'd be deadly.

More importantly, probably the best person to decide if a leash is a good idea is the subject of this video. Kai is far, far beyond demonstrating bravado by shunning safety gear.  He's a smart, safety conscious guy. If he's not wearing a leash, I bet he has a good reason. I would expect a foil board to anchor more than a windsurfing rig. In windsurfing people don't wear leashes or PFDs. You can swim to your gear and be better off than bobbing in a PFD.

The safety issues surrounding watersport require much more than just basic, ironclad rules. They require personal accountability and reasoned decision-making. People consume perceived safety margins. Worse yet, safety gear always has a tradeoff. Float or mobility. Keep your board and risk entanglement. Wear a helmet and have it break your neck when you hit the water at high speed.

People die with their seat belt fastened because they think the seat belt will protect them when they drive like selfish lunatics.
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Area 10

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2016, 08:56:48 PM »
As my answer indicates, I was more bothered by his lack of sunscreen than the absence of a leash. It's not for me to tell Kai what he should do. What would be suicidal for me is pretty safe for him. It was the potential effect of this video upon the psyche of others in terms of risk perception I was highlighting. He's made an activity that would be very dangerous for 99.999% of the population look like a walk in the park. That is truly remarkable in terms of understanding what level Kai is at. But the rest of us would probably get our limbs sliced off and bleed to death before the fish recycled us :)

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2016, 10:27:16 PM »
Foil boards will tend to stay on foil a lot longer than you would think!The problem with a leash when foiling is when you fall and the board pings back there is enough speed for it to get back foiling towards you! Really you want a slow recoil type leash like kites used to have or something to stop this. They are a pretty good anchor when not moving however.

yugi

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2016, 12:28:13 AM »
^ That's what I'd expect. Sounds like a leash is not necessary and may even be a bad idea. Given one can swim.

A10, he is wearing sunscreen.

surfcowboy

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2016, 01:21:34 AM »
Yo, am I getting old or something?

Kai Lenny is an action sports athlete and a professional stuntman. Can we all stop second guessing what he does?

Sorry, but I just can't stand the fear and nanny-ism here lately.  I say this with humor and a smile, but here it is. He is paid well to risk life and limb and look like a golden God doing it. His profession is literally to put himself in danger and he has spent his entire life training for it. He is a grown man and makes his own decisions. He is selling a dream. That is what he is doing, selling a dream that we all buy. A dream where I don't have to wear a vest or sunscreen (or condoms or helmets or..) it's a dream and he is paid to create it and film it. And he does it better than anyone in this tiny speck of a sport we all love.

As far as being a role model, trust me, that God-forsaken bull j&$z that he's selling will kill far more people than not wearing a pfd ever will.

Next, let's all start a thread about how Greg Noll really should have worn a vest at Waimea. I guess we can photoshop those pics to have a smaller wave and a vest so kids won't emulate him. I'm sure, I don't know, at least 3 or 4 people might have paddled out in 40 foot waves and emulated him and gotten hurt in 50 years. We'd better pass a law.

Come on guys. What say we all go watch some Evel Kinevel videos and reset our line on idiocy and irresponsible behavior and let Kai get back to risking his health for nai$h and red ball$ in peace?

When I was his age I did so many stupid things and my only regret is that the list isn't longer.

Responsible behavior makes citizens, not legends. I think we still need a few legends.

And here's a toast to the reckless bastards who were out there paddling beside him in what citizens would call a storm. You guys are way too old to be doing that. Don't. F-ing. Stop. You inspire me.

(I hope you all feel the humor in this, and also maybe consider what I'm saying and  loosen up a bit.) Now, hold my beer and watch this... ;)

DW

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2016, 03:15:36 AM »
Quote
I would expect a foil board to anchor more than a windsurfing rig.

Unfortunately it's the opposite. You have to grab it quick, or it's gone like a motor is under it.

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2016, 03:42:26 AM »
When I was his age I did so many stupid things and my only regret is that the list isn't longer.

What do we have to do around here to get a like button or one of those green up-thumbs?

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2016, 03:55:42 AM »
Quote
I would expect a foil board to anchor more than a windsurfing rig.

Unfortunately it's the opposite. You have to grab it quick, or it's gone like a motor is under it.

I'd like to see a video of that because I'm having trouble visualizing the board staying upright with no rider on it. The claim seems to defy logic.

If the foil is creating lift, the board should immediately fall over with no rider weight to hold it down and keep it balanced. I'm not saying you are wrong. I just want to know how it's possible for the board to keep on going by itself.






« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 04:12:56 AM by Badger »
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DW

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2016, 05:34:31 AM »
Quote
I would expect a foil board to anchor more than a windsurfing rig.

Unfortunately it's the opposite. You have to grab it quick, or it's gone like a motor is under it.

I'd like to see a video of that because I'm having trouble visualizing the board staying upright with no rider on it. The claim seems to defy logic.

If the foil is creating lift, the board should immediately fall over with no rider weight to hold it down and keep it balanced. I'm not saying you are wrong. I just want to know how it's possible for the board to keep on going by itself.

Think of it like this. With every wave push, even tiny ripples, a board gets some push, foiled or not foiled. With the foil on it, the board drifts like it's less than it's true weight. With each push the board is unweighted to X degree. X being unknown, but real for sure. So the board just flies along "on the water" like you've not seen your board do before.

headmount

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2016, 09:07:39 AM »
Yo, am I getting old or something?

Kai Lenny is an action sports athlete and a professional stuntman. Can we all stop second guessing what he does?

Sorry, but I just can't stand the fear and nanny-ism here lately.  I say this with humor and a smile, but here it is. He is paid well to risk life and limb and look like a golden God doing it. His profession is literally to put himself in danger and he has spent his entire life training for it. He is a grown man and makes his own decisions. He is selling a dream. That is what he is doing, selling a dream that we all buy. A dream where I don't have to wear a vest or sunscreen (or condoms or helmets or..) it's a dream and he is paid to create it and film it. And he does it better than anyone in this tiny speck of a sport we all love.

As far as being a role model, trust me, that God-forsaken bull j&$z that he's selling will kill far more people than not wearing a pfd ever will.

Next, let's all start a thread about how Greg Noll really should have worn a vest at Waimea. I guess we can photoshop those pics to have a smaller wave and a vest so kids won't emulate him. I'm sure, I don't know, at least 3 or 4 people might have paddled out in 40 foot waves and emulated him and gotten hurt in 50 years. We'd better pass a law.

Come on guys. What say we all go watch some Evel Kinevel videos and reset our line on idiocy and irresponsible behavior and let Kai get back to risking his health for nai$h and red ball$ in peace?

When I was his age I did so many stupid things and my only regret is that the list isn't longer.

Responsible behavior makes citizens, not legends. I think we still need a few legends.

And here's a toast to the reckless bastards who were out there paddling beside him in what citizens would call a storm. You guys are way too old to be doing that. Don't. F-ing. Stop. You inspire me.

(I hope you all feel the humor in this, and also maybe consider what I'm saying and  loosen up a bit.) Now, hold my beer and watch this... ;)

The most fun post I've read in awhile.  Man, we know stupid in spades around here.  PBill plays like he's a nerd but his real credo is if we can't get hurt doing this we're doing something wrong.  I just go along as I'm easily influenced by others.  I love this pic as it describes everything.  My imagination is that these are Polish boys who have just stolen a Nazi sidecar to grab a tree.  That situation would epitomize the feeling I had growing up with my crazy brother at the wheel, having adrenalized fun in the face of overwhelming doom.

Beasho

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2016, 09:49:24 AM »
OK, OK, we won't criticize him for lack of safety protocol.

Back to the topic at hand.

What Kai does here at 1:10 demonstrates that he has the ability to get up, go and keep going indefinitely.

I am no downwinder but doesn't this suggest that he can hop from one wave source of energy and ride it until it fades then jump to the next available 'bump' and keep riding.  Unlike you longboarders he also requires MUCH, MUCH less energy to ride and cruise meaning less destruction of the power in the swell.

My only comparison is from windsurfing when we would sail downwind and partially ride swell, but they would fade.  More relevant is from big wave days when swells would set up a mile out to sea.  You could select your set wave (e.g. 1st, 2nd or 3rd . . ) and then ride on that wave front pushing higher and higher up wind until it broke on the reef and you would bottom turn.  Translate this experience to the outer set waves at Mavericks and the Magic starts all over again.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 09:51:50 AM by Beasho »

Adolfo

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2016, 09:58:48 AM »
Quote
I would expect a foil board to anchor more than a windsurfing rig.

Unfortunately it's the opposite. You have to grab it quick, or it's gone like a motor is under it.
Have you seen that yourself?
Iím not very experienced. But Iíve being kite hydrofoiling for 3 months now, and when I fall (very often) the board just stays there drifting slowly downwind, almost like a normal kiteboard. It doesnít point downwind and acelerate fast like a sup does, and never flies off the water. Of course I have my kite to help me get back to the board, but I think I wouldnít have any problem swimming back to it, and Iím not Kai Lenny. Disclaimer: I never foiled in more than 25 knots of wind, so I canít say if the board behaves differently in more wind.
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DW

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2016, 02:25:42 PM »
Quote
I would expect a foil board to anchor more than a windsurfing rig.

Unfortunately it's the opposite. You have to grab it quick, or it's gone like a motor is under it.
Have you seen that yourself?
Iím not very experienced. But Iíve being kite hydrofoiling for 3 months now, and when I fall (very often) the board just stays there drifting slowly downwind, almost like a normal kiteboard. It doesnít point downwind and acelerate fast like a sup does, and never flies off the water. Of course I have my kite to help me get back to the board, but I think I wouldnít have any problem swimming back to it, and Iím not Kai Lenny. Disclaimer: I never foiled in more than 25 knots of wind, so I canít say if the board behaves differently in more wind.

If you kite foil, then you know the speed of drift I'm talking about. With a non foiled kiteboard it takes time to body drag back to your board. With a foiled kiteboard, you usually body drag down wind to catch your board or it comes right to you, but never do you have to body drag upwind. Drift is faster than board with no foil. That's all I'm saying. Foil does not act like anchor, it does opposite, it helps drift. That's all I'm trying to correct here. It's not an anchor.

PonoBill

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Re: Kai Lenny Foil Open Ocean SUP & Prone Surfing
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2016, 02:28:31 PM »
Certainly if the board gets an errant shove it can pop up on the foil and zip away. Most foils are somewhat unstable in the roll direction and would tend to fall over, but some wings have a lot of tip dihedral and are reasonably stable. They should also pitch over on their nose, but again, a well-balanced board could work against that.  The Geezer foil is going to be a problem that way. I gave it a shove in the surfy little waves at the event center and it went all the way to the beach, about 100 yards away, at high speed.  It's absolutely stable in all axis. That's not good. I think I need to make the wings smaller--a lot smaller. Next step is stack weights on it and drag it around behind a boat. I promised Diane I'd do some basic tests before I jump on it. She knows me too well.

A board with a heavy foil under it will react to wind and current very differently than a board floating high with no weight on it. It could move a lot faster, or it could stay still. Depends on the conditions and the nature of the foil.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 02:31:58 PM by PonoBill »
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