Author Topic: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.  (Read 6262 times)

magentawave

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Jimmy Lewis comparing the sandwich construction of his boards with others.

(I searched the site and couldn't find this video so sorry if it's already been shown.)

UPDATE: Sorry but this video was posted on this forum already but I can't delete.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 09:35:42 AM by magentawave »
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

TallDude

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2016, 10:10:44 AM »
We know that sandwich composites are strong. In fact, stiff to the point of lifeless construction. Every time he says "our construction is so stiff" I kinda cringe. I started to picture him selling his boards to a rental shop. I like my all arounder boards that family and friends use to be bullet proof so I don't have to repair them all the time, but my surfing boards I want to flex. Flex gives them life, and responsive turns. Stiff surfboards have no feel.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

Bean

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2016, 01:32:26 PM »
Stiffness is relative, I have not felt a livelier SUP than my JL 9'6" BB.  My first impression was that It feels lively like a traditional poly longboard...I have epoxy longboards that feel stiffer.

One board that was similar to the JL BB in the "lively feel" department was a (Foote) 808 9'6', also bulletproof sandwich construction.  The commonality for these two particular boards is they are both relatively thin for mid 9 footers.

Eagle

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2016, 02:35:25 PM »
The JL glass sandwich is actually a really good I-Beam design for the M-14.  Has flex in the nose where it is useful to absorb - and stiff elsewhere.  At 28 lbs it is reasonable.  Paint finish is really quite high quality as well.  Our board has one compression dent - and one ding from a drop - but otherwise is in like new condition.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

magentawave

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2016, 07:41:28 PM »
My custom sailboards back in the day all had a thin layer of dense foam (divinycell, I think) bagged on an EPS core. I don't know if they sandwiched the cloth like Jimmy Lewis is doing.
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

TallDude

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2016, 10:19:31 PM »
If the board is thin enough, it will flex.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

Area 10

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2016, 11:47:20 PM »
Other top brands use this sort of construction too, for their more expensive ranges. But what is amazing is how much cheaper Jimmy manages to do it (using a factory in Vietnam, I think) compared with the Cobra-built (Thailand) boards of other big brands such as Starboard etc. If Cobra is the biggest (and assuming that the JL factory isn't run like a sweat-shop), then why aren't there economies of scale that the other brands could pass onto the customer?

supuk

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2016, 11:53:18 PM »
We know that sandwich composites are strong. In fact, stiff to the point of lifeless construction. Every time he says "our construction is so stiff" I kinda cringe. I started to picture him selling his boards to a rental shop. I like my all arounder boards that family and friends use to be bullet proof so I don't have to repair them all the time, but my surfing boards I want to flex. Flex gives them life, and responsive turns. Stiff surfboards have no feel.

I'm with on this and i know a number of others who say the same, stiff is good for race boards or dw boards but not for my surfboards personally

ukgm

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2016, 03:58:07 AM »
Other top brands use this sort of construction too, for their more expensive ranges. But what is amazing is how much cheaper Jimmy manages to do it (using a factory in Vietnam, I think) compared with the Cobra-built (Thailand) boards of other big brands such as Starboard etc. If Cobra is the biggest (and assuming that the JL factory isn't run like a sweat-shop), then why aren't there economies of scale that the other brands could pass onto the customer?

Likely because in consumer product design, you charge what you feel the market is willing to pay, not what it actually costs.

(personally though, I'm continually being told by reps that race boards don't sell in great numbers so either they need to see if cost and not other factors like storage or over specialisation are to blame)

magentawave

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2016, 08:57:59 AM »
Other top brands use this sort of construction too, for their more expensive ranges. But what is amazing is how much cheaper Jimmy manages to do it (using a factory in Vietnam, I think) compared with the Cobra-built (Thailand) boards of other big brands such as Starboard etc. If Cobra is the biggest (and assuming that the JL factory isn't run like a sweat-shop), then why aren't there economies of scale that the other brands could pass onto the customer?

Maybe it's because the cost of labor is lower in Vietnam than it is in Thailand? There are many emerging markets now where that is the case.
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

Eagle

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2016, 01:22:38 PM »
Other top brands use this sort of construction too, for their more expensive ranges. But what is amazing is how much cheaper Jimmy manages to do it (using a factory in Vietnam, I think) compared with the Cobra-built (Thailand) boards of other big brands such as Starboard etc. If Cobra is the biggest (and assuming that the JL factory isn't run like a sweat-shop), then why aren't there economies of scale that the other brands could pass onto the customer?

Likely because in consumer product design, you charge what you feel the market is willing to pay, not what it actually costs.

The pricing in Canada -

M-14       $2999     Glass I-Beam
Rail         $3549     100% Carbon

http://www.jimmylewis.ca/?page_id=2434

AS23      $3595     Hybrid Carbon
AS23      $5370     Carbon Sandwich  (on sale now for $3221)

http://shop.kalavidasurfshop.com/starboard-all-star-hybrid-carbon/dp/2904

http://shop.kalavidasurfshop.com/starboard-all-star-14-x-23-carbon-sandwich/dp/2745

Pricing seems dependent on what the market will pay.  SB looks to be dropping 2017 prices by $500 USD - and Lahui Kai is still selling certain carbon boards for $1210 USD.  So maybe certain manufacturers are finally realizing they must lower prices to sell the number of boards they want and remain competitive.  But if LK can sell carbon boards for that.  That is what they are actually worth.  The profit margin looks to be extremely high for the AS23 CS comparatively.  So always buy used when you can - and keep that profit in your pocket.  ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

coldsup

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2016, 01:45:37 PM »
I have a JL surf sup......can fault it in the water.....doesn't feel lifeless or stiff .....just feels nice  ;D

To be honest, I can't tell if it feels much diff to the JP, Fanatic, Naish etc that I have had before....it just surfs good that's all I can tell you.

TallDude

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2016, 04:41:51 PM »
I have a JL surf sup......can fault it in the water.....doesn't feel lifeless or stiff .....just feels nice  ;D

To be honest, I can't tell if it feels much diff to the JP, Fanatic, Naish etc that I have had before....it just surfs good that's all I can tell you.
You would have to have a custom with a typical 4-6, 4-6-6 glass layup to compare it to. My own standard glass sup surf board is pretty beat up, but still surfs better than any sandwich or CF layup composite board that I've surfed. I've recently been bringing my standard glass board and my Coreban (which is a PVC sandwich composite) with me when I surf. Switching back and forth between the two has really made the difference obvious. I haven't had to repair the Coreban yet, but I just repaired standard glass (home made) board for the millionth time. The extra performance IS worth the drip dry and repair hassle I go though. 
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

Area 10

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 05:45:10 PM »
Other top brands use this sort of construction too, for their more expensive ranges. But what is amazing is how much cheaper Jimmy manages to do it (using a factory in Vietnam, I think) compared with the Cobra-built (Thailand) boards of other big brands such as Starboard etc. If Cobra is the biggest (and assuming that the JL factory isn't run like a sweat-shop), then why aren't there economies of scale that the other brands could pass onto the customer?

Maybe it's because the cost of labor is lower in Vietnam than it is in Thailand? There are many emerging markets now where that is the case.
Possibly. Or maybe it's something to do with currency exchange rates. But whatever the reason, as far as I'm concerned, Cobra are not the benchmark for production SUPs. If this Vietnamese factory can make a better product more cheaply, then I wish all brands would move their production there, and I'm not sure why the brands aren't asking Cobra why they are no longer the best.

Area 10

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Re: Jimmy Lewis explains the sandwich construction of his boards vs others.
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2016, 06:09:09 PM »
Other top brands use this sort of construction too, for their more expensive ranges. But what is amazing is how much cheaper Jimmy manages to do it (using a factory in Vietnam, I think) compared with the Cobra-built (Thailand) boards of other big brands such as Starboard etc. If Cobra is the biggest (and assuming that the JL factory isn't run like a sweat-shop), then why aren't there economies of scale that the other brands could pass onto the customer?

Likely because in consumer product design, you charge what you feel the market is willing to pay, not what it actually costs.

(personally though, I'm continually being told by reps that race boards don't sell in great numbers so either they need to see if cost and not other factors like storage or over specialisation are to blame)
Yes, the numbers of new race boards being sold in the UK is laughably small. Partly this is supply: it's just about impossible to buy what you want here and in some other parts of Europe. I've tried to buy two boards this year and have been unable to source either of them. I've got my eye on two others for 2017 but it doesn't look hopeful that I'll be able to get them either, even though there are distributors in this country. Nobody seems to want to take my money.

But the real problem is indeed cost. For some reason people will just not spend the same amount of money on a SUP as they will a bike, for instance. The value in it is not as obvious. Most carbon race SUPs in the UK cost over £2000 GBP (sometimes substantially more). But most people are barely willing to pay £1000 for a SUP, which is about what they cost back in 2008/9. Year on year since then the prices have risen roughly about 10% pa, but the amount that most people are willing to spend hasn't changed at all. Part of the issue is that for so many SUPers, SUP is not their primary sport. They are windsurfers, surfers, kayakers, triathletes, sailors, kitesurfers etc, and SUP when they can't do their primary sport, or use it as cross-training. I have some friends who mountain bike, and will drop £4-5000 on a bike. They all have SUPs. But they are looking to spend no more than £1500, and are much more likely to buy used for half of that.

This is reinforced by the fact that the most available boards are produced by kite/windsurfing brands, and the retailers you'd buy them from (in the main) have their principal business in these other sports. SUP is just a small part of their diversified business. It seems that there are more specialist retailers in the US. But in Europe it's not really the principal concern of anyone who is involved in the supply or marketing chain. So it's chicken-and-egg: sales are few because retailers won't risk overstocking, and this means high prices, and high prices keeps demand low. And few seem to believe in SUP as a standalone sport. They make their money selling inflatables to mums and dads who will use them a handful of times a year, like they did their sit-on-top rotomold kayaks.

 


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