PFD's Questions????

[hbsteve]

Plus 1 on a couple of comments:
With the Sterns, I have forgotten I was wearing it, until I got in my vehicle.
Rinse the outside always.  If it got wet inside, rinse and let dry.

Additionally, I've never heard of anyone getting stopped for wearing the belt pack backwards.  I actually keep the tap inside.  Yeah, I don't have immediate access.  But, I figure it has less chance of accidentally inflating.

[Eagle]

I had an experience earlier this year where I took a tumble off my board and smacked my ribs on the rail. Very, very painful. I was wearing a waist belt which of course didn’t offer any protection at all for my ribs. After recommendations from another Zoner (I think it was Eagle???) I purchased a Kokatat Orbit PFD. It is low profile and not obtrusive at all. I now wear it every time out. Was a great investment!

https://kokatat.com/product/orbit-tour-pfd-lvuobt

Yeah that Orbit works a charm for a fully approved PFD.  Used it all the time when first learning to ride the AS23.  When I wear that PFD my level of confidence goes way up because if I happen to fall off - there is very little risk of drowning.  The Orbit provides some core warmth and protection from injury as well - as QB rightly notes.

Much higher level of safety than just a waist PFD.  Noticed that the Mustang we use - inflates to go right over your head - unlike some other inflatables.  This should keep your head afloat.  Our harness inflatables remove this donning step.  The TC requirements are different than USCG - and many US PFDs are not TC approved.

The CO2 cartridge does deploy the airbag fine - and it is a good idea to check that the green mark is visible.  We make it so the pull tab just sticks out making it harder to pull by accident.  Did have a small boy pull one dangling - and he was so scared by the big bang - he thought he triggered a bomb!

But always feel super safe and secure wearing a full PFD and proper strong leash in rough conditions.  I have no doubts at all the Orbit will always keep me properly afloat - and not ever floating face down.

[Kaihoe]

If you are going out in gnarly conditions, then I recommend a full kayaking or surfski type PFD. Fiddling with a pull cord, having to switch the belt around from your back to the front may be just too much in an emergency situation

I agree with you Off-Shore, we generally only take PFDs out when we feel the need i.e. we are taking them as a safety devices not just for compliance (generally not an issue here).  That generally means conditions where if the leash broke  you are going to need a buoyancy aid.  The idea of trying to inflate and rely on a belt PFD in this situation is questionable.

I had an experience earlier this year where I took a tumble off my board and smacked my ribs on the rail. Very, very painful. I was wearing a waist belt which of course didn’t offer any protection at all for my ribs. After recommendations from another Zoner (I think it was Eagle???) I purchased a Kokatat Orbit PFD. It is low profile and not obtrusive at all. I now wear it every time out. Was a great investment!

https://kokatat.com/product/orbit-tour-pfd-lvuobt

I've been there myself.  In a recent downwind race, running hard against a friend we nasty situation where his board landed on the back of mine and I took a knock to the head.  Totally screwed my balance and I struggle to get the board in through the overhead break.  Its got me thinking that bad stuff can happen out there and really I need a PFD that WILL float me if go into the water feeling less then 100%

[Off-Shore]

I've been there myself.  In a recent downwind race, running hard against a friend we nasty situation where his board landed on the back of mine and I took a knock to the head.  Totally screwed my balance and I struggle to get the board in through the overhead break.  Its got me thinking that bad stuff can happen out there and really I need a PFD that WILL float me if go into the water feeling less then 100%

Yep. If you have ever taken a knock from falling on your own board (I have too) or being hit by other boards in gnarly conditions, having that immediate buoyancy of a proper pfd is good and preferable. 

[Area 10]

Have you tried swimming any distance in these pfds? The shortcoming of some of these PFDs is that it is pretty much impossible to do so. So it will keep you afloat for sure, but you aren't going anywhere. Whereas if you are wearing something like an impact vest, you can swim in it, and it also provides some buoyancy. It's a tricky one. Ideally I think, they'd be an impact vest that also had an inflatable component if you chose to deploy it. Is there such a thing? My most likely scenario would be a leash break on a downwinder in eg. 35 knots, with a mile or two to swim to shore. I could probably do that if my life depended on it. But not in a full pfd and wetsuit (I SUP cold waters). I'm not sure of want to be just bobbing in the water waiting for someone to answer my PLB. I think I'd rather activate the PLB and also be slowly making my way shorewards swimming, which doesn't seem possible in some full PFDs. Does anyone have experience of swimming in one in rough seas?

[pdxmike]

Have you tried swimming any distance in these pfds? The shortcoming of some of these PFDs is that it is pretty much impossible to do so. So it will keep you afloat for sure, but you aren't going anywhere. Whereas if you are wearing something like an impact vest, you can swim in it, and it also provides some buoyancy. It's a tricky one. Ideally I think, they'd be an impact vest that also had an inflatable component if you chose to deploy it. Is there such a thing? My most likely scenario would be a leash break on a downwinder in eg. 35 knots, with a mile or two to swim to shore. I could probably do that if my life depended on it. But not in a full pfd and wetsuit (I SUP cold waters). I'm not sure of want to be just bobbing in the water waiting for someone to answer my PLB. I think I'd rather activate the PLB and also be slowly making my way shorewards swimming, which doesn't seem possible in some full PFDs. Does anyone have experience of swimming in one in rough seas?

I agree with all that.  Early on, I used to paddle with an impact vest I'd found, until I realized it didn't qualify as a legal PFD.  I could have swum in it easily--it was basically a vest wetsuit.  It had the added benefit of providing good insulation, which PFDs don't since they're not snug.  So I'd gladly trade the full flotation of a pfd for the vest's swim-friendliness, comfort and insulation. 

That's another argument against PFD regulations. There's a whole realm of possibilities/combinations of garments or devices that would provide flotation or flotation with insulation (and maybe even add hydration) but the legal requirements skew them entirely towards full flotation to the detriment of everything else, including convenience.  One I remember being posted once was a wrist-mounted (I think) inflatable float.  A line kept it connected to you, and you could grab onto it or throw it, and it would be easy to swim with, but since you couldn't wear it, it wasn't a legal PFD.  With less strict PFD regulations, you'd get more responses from people who've swum in impact vests or other alternatives to standard PFDs.

Ironic--PFDs interfere with swimming, the most basic method of rescuing yourself in water.  They also make it more likely you'll need rescuing, because they can create the slowness that makes the difference between catching up to your board if your leash breaks, and watching it get blown away out of reach.

[feet]

A properly fitted PFD IS snug. If it isn't snug, you're not wearing it right. The offerings from Kokatat, Stohlquist, Astral, and the one that PonoBill referenced are the way to go. 

If you paddle in cold water, without a PFD or wetsuit/drysuit, the statistics are not in your favor if your leash breaks and you are far from shore. (Or even near shore if the water is cold enough and the paddler is unprotected.)

The suggestion that a PFD hinders your swimming speed is most likely true, though I haven't tested it. However, wearing a PFD significantly decreases your risk of drowning if faced with a long swim, especially if the paddler is injured and can't swim after their board. Anyone remember the video DJ posted of his board blowing away?

[stoneaxe]

The new MTI Fluid 2.0 is a lot more streamlined. Unless I'm in gnarly conditions I can't see wearing anything but a beltpack...if it wasn't for the rules I wouldn't even do that. I always wear a good leash.

[capobeachboy]

I love my Restube for racing - it's by far the most compact pfd out there: http://www.restube-usa.com/#!shop/i5tjp

There's also the Quatic inflatable rashguard: http://quaticapparel.com/products/inflatable-rashguard

[baddog]

Most of the devices mentioned are not USCG approved, making them a poor choice for anyone in the USA.  Why bother when there are USCG approved options?

The Sterns seems tiny and I can't believe just a 'Restube like floaty' is actually certified.

My West Marine aka Onyx M16 is smaller and unnoticeable.  I recently got reprimanded for not having a PFD, I had to say "yes I do!".



Can't believe this one got certified either.  Positively tiny on and just a big pillow with a strap on top you toss over your head.

Swimming wise, backstroking is no problem, but I'd just flip the strap off and side stroke my home.

[SUP Sports ®]

The Stearns...like most of the belt pack PFDs  that we have carried in our store over the years...is USCG approved Type V PFD...with Type III buoyancy at full inflation...this means 22.0#  (100 Newtons) of buoyancy at full inflation...

Most adults only need an extra seven to twelve pounds of buoyancy to keep their heads above water. A PFD can give that "extra lift," and it's made to keep you floating until help comes.

https://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5214/pfdselection.asp

Here is a link to an interesting article about the new rating system that is being adapted...

Like the ISO standard, the new North American standard will use performance levels based on the buoyancy of the device, with Level 50, Level 100, Level 150, and Level 275 designations. Also included will be a Level 70 standard, to account for the millions of old type II and III devices that had 15.5# of buoyancy, or 70 Newtons. So, instead of shopping for a Type I, II, or III, you’ll soon be shopping for a Level 50, 70, 100, or 150 life jacket. Oh, and the good news in all of this is that the term “personal flotation device” is also being retired, at least in the U.S. The more common term, lifejacket, will be how the industry and Coast Guard refers to these devices in the future.

https://saf.cruisingclub.org/news/2015/safety-moment-lifejacket-changes-june-3-2015

[SeldomScene]

Have you tried swimming any distance in these pfds? The shortcoming of some of these PFDs is that it is pretty much impossible to do so. So it will keep you afloat for sure, but you aren't going anywhere. Whereas if you are wearing something like an impact vest, you can swim in it, and it also provides some buoyancy. It's a tricky one. Ideally I think, they'd be an impact vest that also had an inflatable component if you chose to deploy it. Is there such a thing? My most likely scenario would be a leash break on a downwinder in eg. 35 knots, with a mile or two to swim to shore. I could probably do that if my life depended on it. But not in a full pfd and wetsuit (I SUP cold waters). I'm not sure of want to be just bobbing in the water waiting for
someone to answer my PLB. I think I'd rather activate the PLB and also be slowly making my way shorewards swimming, which doesn't seem possible in some full PFDs. Does anyone have experience of swimming in one in rough seas?

It may be a little slower swimming in a PFD but "impossible" isn't really accurate.  I recall this argument from a past thread.  All you have to do is swim to your board, which should be leashed to you.  In any case, you'd have to swim with your paddle anyway.  So you wouldn't be as fast as you might be, with no pfd and no paddle.  As one who has self rescued in whitewater rivers while kayaking by swimming to shore with a pfd, I know it can be done, and is commonly done, and I don't mean just washing up where the river takes you.  Just a little extra drag with a pfd, but much less work to stay afloat.  Why don't you conduct an experiment, put on a pfd and hop in, see if you are anchored in place.

[Area 10]

Seldom, I imagine our SUP conditions are very different. If you read the whole of my post, then you'll see that I was talking about the situation where you have become separated from your board because of eg. leash failure. Leash snaps ate a real possibility in the conditions I go out in.

We might also differ in our definitions of what constitutes "swimming". A couple of days ago I swam about 2.5k in the sea at a respectable cruising pace just to make sure I can. I was OK, but was pretty tired at the end of it. If I had been doing it in typical downwinding conditions it would have been substantially more difficult. But I could probably still make it. But put a typical kayak or sailing pfd on and it would be pretty much impossible unless perhaps you happen to be a professional lifeguard or open-water swimmer.

So, I suggest you try it. Get a pfd on, jump in the sea, and try to swim 1-2 miles. I doubt you'll get further than 500 yds before you decide that it is, to all intents and purposes, "impossible". I know, I've tried. And I was shocked at how handicapped I was.

But of course if there is no chance that you could swim to safety anyway, because your swimming is weak, then pretty much your only option if your board goes AWOL is a pfd. So, yet again, matters of safety depend in situations and people, and it is pretty difficult to come up with a "one size fits all" solution. Mostly it is about balancing the risks. In cold water, you can't just bob about forever and wait for someone to come. Even in a wetsuit, the clock starts ticking the minute you hit the water, so if you can, you'd better start moving in the direction you need to go asap. It might be different in the tropics, and in calm water or suchlike.

I also think that sometimes PFDs give a false sense of security. But that's another story altogether, and I'd never suggest someone doesn't wear one if they think it might be helpful.

[Gramps]

I've had several opportunities to try and swim wearing a USCG approved PFD and an impact vest; the impact vest is far easier to swim while wearing.  I generally wear a belt pack PFD but when it's really rough and cold I wear both the belt pack and impact vest.

[CascadeSup]

So, I suggest you try it. Get a pfd on, jump in the sea, and try to swim 1-2 miles. I doubt you'll get further than 500 yds before you decide that it is, to all intents and purposes, "impossible". I know, I've tried. And I was shocked at how handicapped I was.

+1  Yes, me too. I glad someone brought this up.  I suspect there are a lot of people who overestimate their ability to swim in open water.  I spent some time this summer swimming in my local cold mountain lake, in all wind conditions.  Swimming in rough seas is hard.  Fortunately for me there I'm never more than .5 mile from any shore (but may be more than a mile from the downwind shore).   

And yes, the other "impossible" thing with SUP (particularly in spring) is dressing for immersion in cold water when the air temperature is warm or hot.  If you aren't cooking when paddling, you'll be freezing if swimming for while.