Author Topic: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke  (Read 18714 times)

Night Wing

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Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« on: August 09, 2016, 05:47:47 AM »
Since I've basically been in drydock because of my left hand, I've been surfing YouTube watching others on how they do they paddling. Earlier this morning, I came across Travis Grant demonstrating a new paddle stroke he is using in conjunction with his old paddle stroke. There are subtle changes when comparing his two paddle strokes.

When I get my left hand healed and I'm allowed to get back on the water with my sup, I'm going to try his new stroke for my flat water cruising. The link to Travis' video where he talks about and demonstrates his new paddle stroke is below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypY0Kw4qmk
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 05:54:40 AM by Night Wing »
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Off-Shore

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2016, 06:23:06 AM »
Just saw this too. Interesting how in the new stroke he's "trying to keep the paddle in the water as long as possible" ie way back behind his feet which is something we have always been told creates drag and slows you down. I love how things change in our sport. Soon we'll realise that actually really short wide boards are faster than long narrow ones.. ;)
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ukgm

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2016, 07:13:30 AM »
Just saw this too. Interesting how in the new stroke he's "trying to keep the paddle in the water as long as possible" ie way back behind his feet which is something we have always been told creates drag and slows you down. I love how things change in our sport. Soon we'll realise that actually really short wide boards are faster than long narrow ones.. ;)

It was interesting when you start applying some proper scientific data collection how some longstanding theories get debunked. For example, the 'not pulling past the feet' thing came into question as soon as Larry Cain whacked some sensors on and measured that (in the case of himself and Jim Terrell) it wasn't the evil we'd been led to believe..........

pdxmike

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2016, 11:59:06 AM »
Night Wing--thanks, that's a great video.  Having him show both techniques and discussing the pros and cons is way more helpful than just seeing somebody doing or talking about one.  I also like that he realizes the stroke knowledge is in flux, so there's no absolute right or wrong. 

ukgm--I noticed that "pulling past the feet" thing also.  I wonder how much of that is actually still applying force, versus letting the paddle slide past the feet and out of the water smoothly.  I'd guess the not pulling past your feet advice has become so engrained that people have distorted their strokes to create a choppy, abrupt pull-out instead of a smooth, natural one, trying to adhere to that advice, which was probably originally intended to mean "don't apply force past your feet".  So letting the blade go past your feet might really improve your stroke, but the reason may be that it creates a smoother, non-abbreviated finish, leading to a better transition into the recovery, versus it adding a lot of extra length of stroking with power applied.

Another thing with technique is people will try new ones, which do work better, but they don't fully understand why, and misinterpret why it's working better, sometimes for years.  I'd love to see Travis Grant talking about his stroke a year from now to hear what he's learned.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 12:02:02 PM by pdxmike »

Bean

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2016, 12:30:31 PM »
Just saw this too. Interesting how in the new stroke he's "trying to keep the paddle in the water as long as possible" ie way back behind his feet which is something we have always been told creates drag and slows you down. I love how things change in our sport. Soon we'll realise that actually really short wide boards are faster than long narrow ones.. ;)
They are, when they are on plane! ;D

Eagle

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2016, 01:06:32 PM »
It seems for sprints it is good to get out early and get back in fast - but for distance it is fine to take out a bit later to save energy and decrease cadence.  Most do not use the same stroke all the time in all conditions.  We certainly do not.  So the varied descriptions of different paddle strokes used at different times makes perfect sense.
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Bean

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2016, 01:35:14 PM »
Hey Eagle, who are the "we" that you sometimes mention; are you involved with a race team? 

Luc Benac

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2016, 02:13:11 PM »
Just saw this too. Interesting how in the new stroke he's "trying to keep the paddle in the water as long as possible" ie way back behind his feet which is something we have always been told creates drag and slows you down. I love how things change in our sport. Soon we'll realise that actually really short wide boards are faster than long narrow ones.. ;)

Look at the bright side, this change does not require changing any material :-) easier to embrace when you do not need to take out your wallet....only you board.
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Glowmaster

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2016, 04:01:07 PM »
thanks for posting that.

I am finding that the more I concentrate on keeping the blade deep, by bending my knees in my case, the faster the GPS goes.  The trick is making muscle memory and the brain do it all the time.  Havent figured that out yet.

ed


PonoBill

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2016, 04:10:21 PM »
Actually, you're getting the wrong thing out of this video and this technique. We've adopted Johnny Puakea's stroke in the Hood River OCC, and he's been here to train us a couple of times. I missed both times, unfortunately, but we're drilling in the technique and our coaching is all about the Puakea stroke.

"Long in the water" is one of the mantras, but the stroke is all about the catch, and then putting downward pressure on the paddle with much straighter arm. I angle my wrist back a little to remind myself to stroke down. The reason the paddle is "long in the water" is that the blade is deep. If you concentrate on getting the blade out early, you won't get the downward force and depth that continues the power of the catch for a longer period. It's still a short power stroke--maybe five or ten inches longer than the torso rotation, shoulder stacking stroke that Travis calls his "old" stroke. You aren't pulling past your body (or feet on a SUP board--that's still just a waste of energy and slows the board or boat. But you concentrate on catch and driving downwards and get the blade out when it coasts up.

We also pay attention to stroking slower and returning faster.  You also don't reach as far since you want the blade to catch immediately. We put the blade in "like you're sliding it into a mailbox", pushing forwards and down. Another mantra is "Bend forwards slowly, sit up fast". Hard to do, but what that's about is keeping the power of the catch going by pushing downwards and going deep in one smooth movement. Once the power is off the blade, you sit up quickly so the blade comes out of the water and snap your recovery stroke forward.

Very hard to get it all right, but it's powerful.

The biggest problem with that stroke on SUP is that it's exhausting and hard on my back. I can do it all day in an OC6, but on a SUP there's too much lower back torque.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 04:21:44 PM by PonoBill »
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zachhandler

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2016, 08:11:02 PM »
When I started sup about a year ago, coming from a long background in surfski, marathon canoe, and nordic ski racing, I was skeptical of the hyper rotated stacked shoulder stroke. I could see that it was going to be hard on the shoulders and was not natural to me. Instead I intuitively combined a marathon canoe catch (not over rotated or over stacked in the shoulders) with the body mechanics of double poling on skis. The other nordic skiers that started sup all naturally did the same thing. Basically focusing on downward compressive force rather than rotational torque to power the stroke. This seems to be similar to the puakea stroke that travis is playing with. Easier on the shoulders, more demanding on legs and cardio, which plays to the strengths of nordic skiers. The glutes actually do most of the work double poling. I try to recreate that on a SUP. Here is an example of modern double pole technique if anyone is curious:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs79OMKTSyM

« Last Edit: August 09, 2016, 08:12:48 PM by zachhandler »

Eagle

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2016, 09:01:51 PM »
Hey Eagle, who are the "we" that you sometimes mention; are you involved with a race team? 

Bean - not on any race team.  But paddle with a number of really good racers and sponsored riders from time to time.  Keeps you firing at max just to keep up -> while they paddle at a leisurely pace.  Really helps with stamina speed and technique.  But getting the 23 has been the best as my balance has improved tremendously.  Riding our other wider boards in adverse conditions is now a breeze comparatively.
Fast is FUN!   8)
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yugi

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2016, 02:04:20 AM »
...
putting downward pressure on the paddle with much straighter arm.
...

Can you explain what you mean by that please?

Everything else is clear. I've also been working this for a couple of summers.

ukgm

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2016, 02:43:25 AM »
When I started sup about a year ago, coming from a long background in surfski, marathon canoe, and nordic ski racing, I was skeptical of the hyper rotated stacked shoulder stroke. I could see that it was going to be hard on the shoulders and was not natural to me. Instead I intuitively combined a marathon canoe catch (not over rotated or over stacked in the shoulders) with the body mechanics of double poling on skis. The other nordic skiers that started sup all naturally did the same thing. Basically focusing on downward compressive force rather than rotational torque to power the stroke. This seems to be similar to the puakea stroke that travis is playing with. Easier on the shoulders, more demanding on legs and cardio, which plays to the strengths of nordic skiers. The glutes actually do most of the work double poling. I try to recreate that on a SUP. Here is an example of modern double pole technique if anyone is curious:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs79OMKTSyM

This is an interesting concept. I like it.

Night Wing

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Re: Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2016, 05:04:26 AM »
When I get back on the water, I want to try this new stroke for another reason. Since my sup is 8'11" and considered short for flat water paddling, I want to see if this new stroke will affect side to side nose wag.
Blue Planet Duke: 10'5" x 32" x 4.5" @ 190 Liters (2 Dukes)
Sup Sports Hammer: 8'11" x 31" x 4" @ 140 Liters
SUP Sports One World: 11'1" x 30" x 4.5" @ 173 Liters
CJ Nelson Parallax: 9'3" x 23 1/2" x 3 3/16" @ 78.8 Liters (prone surfing longboard; Thunderbolt Technologies build in Red construction)

 


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