Travis Grant's New Paddling Stroke

[PonoBill]

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putting downward pressure on the paddle with much straighter arm.
...

Can you explain what you mean by that please?

Everything else is clear. I've also been working this for a couple of summers.

You push down hard with your top hand. You can't really push down hard if your arm is curved inward or your elbow is bent. If it doesn't feel awkward you aren't doing it right.  I'm not convinced it's the best technique, but there's no question in my mind that it firms up the catch and extends the power section of the stroke. I think Annabelle was doing something similar early in her career, but she changed her stroke. I suspect it was screwing up her back or shoulders.

[Bean]

So, are we seeing a migration to a unified stroke technique or is this merely an additional technique for the arsenal?

[mrbig]

Great post on the double pole technique!

[TallDude]

With his new stroke he's describing my stoke exactly. I've just found on my own that, the deep long stroke is what allows me to go the fastest and maintain the most glide. Maybe it's just because of my height or inherent lack of flexibility, but rotating my hips and shoulders bending the upper elbow never worked for me. I tied for years to get that turn, but it never produced the speed for me. This new technique that Travis is trying, has given me more speed. It's great to see this because it reinforces what I've been doing in my stroke. I'm sorry, but the whole past your feet thing is out the door for me. My paddle my be past my feet at the end of every stroke, but it's still going deeper and giving me a longer power stroke. 
Paddling in the evenings lately has given me the opportunity to paddle along side the Dana Outriggers. I can match speed with most of the crews. My unlimited is gliding the same speed as their 6 man canoes and my stroke is matching their stroke. The long deep is what I found works to maintain that kinda of speed.

[mrbig]

Am old, short, and flatwater paddling is my form of Cardio Rehab.

All this new information is great. Good technique is always better.

Have been having soooo much fun paddling with my Vivioavtive HR gadget. Real data which is NOT scientific.

On my 14' Bluefin have seen a top speed of 5.89 mph. No wind no current. If races were only a half mile..

Keys were on toes, bend knees, sink the paddle to the hosel, and a longer pull. Just added a twist from my toe. The Connor sit stand still eludes me. I do it and am slower.

Max HR no longer 185!!!! YAHOO!!!

[PonoBill]

The whole "don't pull past your feet" thing has been continually misinterpreted to be "don't let the paddle go past your feet".  People who are doing the SUP version of a Tahitian stroke get the paddle out early to increase cadence. If you choose not to do that, it's not going to affect any aspect of your stroke other than cadence.

But if you're trying to pull on the paddle when it's behind you, the blade angle directs a lot of the force upwards, which pulls the rail down and doesn't do much of anything other than that. Your body is in no position to apply much power anyway. All of these improved strokes focus on catch and extending the power of the first third of the stroke. After that it's all a question of cadence and recovery.

Measuring on video, when paddlers let their blade be pulled to the surface by the forward motion of the board instead of withdrawing the paddle like a sword from a scabbard, the length of time their stroke takes nearly doubles, and their recovery time is longer too, because the blade starts further back and has to be either lifted or winged out to clear the water.  On video or with instruments--both Larry's and mine, the board is slowing from the time the blade reaches your feet until the start of the next catch.

What this stroke does is supply enough power to overcome that longer deceleration. The reason Travis considers the older stroke to be more restful is that it's more efficient--less deceleration time means the next stroke starts at a higher speed. The Tahitian-style stroke shortens the deceleration time and maintains a higher average--or the same average with less work. I find the "Puakea" stroke to be great for getting into bumps, but I modify it with a quicker recovery by pulling the blade out vertically, sacrificing smoothness for quick recovery and brutal acceleration. I focus on pressing down on the handle with my top arm, leaning forward into the paddle, and keeping my arms straight. But I switch back to the "old" tahitian stroke quickly, because I can do that endlessly on a SUP. Now that I'm sometimes "Puakeaing" on downwinders, I have to do my Healthy Back exercises a few times a week or I start creaking around like the old geezer I am.

[Badger]

When I get back on the water, I want to try this new stroke for another reason. Since my sup is 8'11" and considered short for flat water paddling, I want to see if this new stroke will affect side to side nose wag.

To paddle a short board straight, try reaching out to the side and pulling the blade toward the board at the beginning of the stroke instead of pulling just parallel to the board.

[PonoBill]

It will definitely affect it: It will be worse. Without rotation, a little elbow curl, and shoulder stacking you can't keep the shaft as vertical. tilting the top of the shaft in towards the center offsets the blade to the outside, creating turning force. That's both theoretical and practical--I notice I have to change sides a lot more when Puakeaing.

By the way, Johnny has a great design for outrigger paddles. I don't like the handle, but i like the shaft and blades.

[natas585]

I found the same Nordic Skiing resemblance in the sup stroke that some of the others here noticed. So much so I purchased a Ski Erg for my home gym about a month ago. The power curve and muscles required for each are extremely similar even though both arms are used together on the skis. You still have to brace from your core to extremities (Hip to feet,Hip to hand) before you can apply force. Then it's a down and back movement with the hips while bringing your chest closer to your thighs. Anywhere you loose tension in the system( unnecessary bending/flexing) causes bleeding out of power. All things that feel right when you do them on the board feel the same on the Ski Erg. I've used the Sup Erg and didn't feel it replicated the sup stroke power curve/feel to any great degree. It was certainly tiring but the same muscles and force vectors felt pretty correct for the machine but not the actual board. Not the same with the Ski Erg. It felt right the first time I did it. Sorry this isn't an add for the machine just an agreement on this newer stroke explanation resembling Nordic Skiing.

[TallDude]

The shorter the board, the shorter the glide, the quicker the recovery needed, the higher the cadence, the shallower the stroke. Outriggers and flat water unlimiteds have have similar glide. A long deep stroke works well. When I paddle my 9' surf sup a couple of miles (which I do to get to specific breaks), I have to take quick little shallow strokes. I can maintain a pretty good pace, but I can't pull hard other wise my board just sinks and bobs. It truly is a sweeper stroke. It feels like I'm quickly sweeping dust off of steps. Just short little strokes keeps a steady micro glide going.   

[pdxmike]

Actually, you're getting the wrong thing out of this video and this technique. We've adopted Johnny Puakea's stroke in the Hood River OCC, and he's been here to train us a couple of times. I missed both times, unfortunately, but we're drilling in the technique and our coaching is all about the Puakea stroke.

"Long in the water" is one of the mantras, but the stroke is all about the catch, and then putting downward pressure on the paddle with much straighter arm. I angle my wrist back a little to remind myself to stroke down. The reason the paddle is "long in the water" is that the blade is deep. If you concentrate on getting the blade out early, you won't get the downward force and depth that continues the power of the catch for a longer period. It's still a short power stroke--maybe five or ten inches longer than the torso rotation, shoulder stacking stroke that Travis calls his "old" stroke. You aren't pulling past your body (or feet on a SUP board--that's still just a waste of energy and slows the board or boat. But you concentrate on catch and driving downwards and get the blade out when it coasts up.

We also pay attention to stroking slower and returning faster.  You also don't reach as far since you want the blade to catch immediately. We put the blade in "like you're sliding it into a mailbox", pushing forwards and down. Another mantra is "Bend forwards slowly, sit up fast". Hard to do, but what that's about is keeping the power of the catch going by pushing downwards and going deep in one smooth movement. Once the power is off the blade, you sit up quickly so the blade comes out of the water and snap your recovery stroke forward.

Very hard to get it all right, but it's powerful.

The biggest problem with that stroke on SUP is that it's exhausting and hard on my back. I can do it all day in an OC6, but on a SUP there's too much lower back torque.

That explains a lot, and it's a great example of how technique can get misinterpreted. If you don't know what's going on, you might see the longer stroke and think it means you need to concentrate on adding power at the back of the stroke, which you explained is the opposite of what you should be doing.  Pretty soon the well-meaning, bad advice gets spread everywhere.


The other thing is that even if you watch videos and get your motions to match Travis Grant's, that doesn't mean your stroke will be right, because you also need to know all the things you mentioned about why you do this or that, where you put the power, etc.

[Billekrub]

Just saw this too. Interesting how in the new stroke he's "trying to keep the paddle in the water as long as possible" ie way back behind his feet which is something we have always been told creates drag and slows you down. I love how things change in our sport. Soon we'll realise that actually really short wide boards are faster than long narrow ones..

It was interesting when you start applying some proper scientific data collection how some longstanding theories get debunked. For example, the 'not pulling past the feet' thing came into question as soon as Larry Cain whacked some sensors on and measured that (in the case of himself and Jim Terrell) it wasn't the evil we'd been led to believe..........

You can test this theory yourself (I will try it next paddle session).  Just do a onetime drill, where you start your stroke at your feet and see if you move forward and how much.  Then report back here.

[TallDude]

The phase where the paddle blade passes your feet (as Travis is describing) is when the blade is the deepest and pretty much the end of the power phase. So recreating that phase of the stroke by attempting to start an your feet is impossible. The paddle continually goes down as you and the board pass it. Driving the blade down gives you the strongest pull. If your recovery point is at your feet or past your feet is the point. It's going to be different for everyone. I have long arms and a 90" long paddle, so I can drive the blade down a long ways. It's going to end up behind my feet on recovery just because of how deep it is.

[mrbig]

It seems obvious that it would be impossible to stop at an arbitrary point. All other sports that I have played involving a swing always teaches a follow through. Golf, tennis, baseball, and hockey. You don't try and stop at the moment of impact..

It feels like the discussion of paddling with power past a point is different than trying to stop and go to the next phase suddenly.

The reality of glide differences in type of craft, as well as length was very useful to me. I am faster on a 14' even though I have way less cadence and am hardly the strongest guy out there.

This type of discussion, both theoretical and experiential, is a great thing! Cardio Boy is weaker, has less stamina, but FASTER post SCA.

Far freakin' out!

Mahalos to all who have contributed!!

      

[pdxmike]

Yes, imagine how screwed up your baseball swing would be if you tried to stop the bat from swinging past a particular point at the end of the follow-through.  The negative effects would ripple forward all the way back to the start, and you'd hit with less power.

The other thing I liked about Travis Grant's explanation, with PB's enhanced description, is that it's a reminder how your recovery is already starting when your paddle is still going backwards.  If you pulled with force all the way to the point where your paddle stopped going backwards, then you'd have a hitch in your stroke between the pull and the recovery.

As usual, it reminds me of swimming, where the back of the arm stroke in freestyle or fly involves swinging your hands out to the back and side, which creates momentum that carries your hands and arms around and right through the recovery.  If you don't do this, you'd push water back until your hand had nowhere to go, and you'd have no momentum going for you.  Then your hand would stop, and you'd have to use your arm muscles to lift your hand out of the water and all the way back to the front to start another stroke.  You'd have the greatest, most powerful pull, but all you gained from that would be more than lost with the slower, high-effort recovery that that long, strong pull would set up.