Author Topic: Hips and the drive.  (Read 8060 times)

Eagle

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2016, 09:57:23 AM »
Go to 1:10 of this vid and the marketer says "so you will be able to get out on top of the water and plane across it - so in starts that's really key.  You get a nice good start and go 7 - 8 - 9 mph - and plane across the surface of the water".  For Connor that peak GPS speed may be 10 or more for a short distance sprint.  Crazy strength to weight ratio - and power to balance ratio.  If an old man like me with crappy balance can go 7.2 on a 23 AS -> someone like Connor probs can easily go over 10 for a short distance on a 21.5 Sprint.   :o

Fast is FUN!   8)
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Beasho

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2016, 10:56:55 AM »
If you want to lose weight EAT FEWER CALORIES.

If you want to go fast INCREASE YOUR STROKES PER MINUTE.

My daughter did a science experiment on efficiency of different paddles.  We used 5 different paddles and 2 paddlers all on a 10' 6" Paddle Surf Hawaii surfing gun, aka slow board.  10 total runs over a 100 meter course. 

I counted Connor @ 92 Strokes over the 200 meters and he only switched his hands twice.  The amazing thing was that my distance per stroke was within 10% of Connors on my fastest runs (2.0 meters vs 2.17 meters for Connor).  I was NOT on a race board, nor have I trained for the past 10 years to be globally competitive.  My daughter's project proved that Strokes/Second was the most impactful measured variable, e.g. most highly correlated with speed.  Connor's distance traveled per stroke, given the massive difference in equipment, technique, physique, 1 start vs. 2 per 100 meters . . . . . was within 10% but his speed was almost 100% faster.   

Conclusion for a Sprint: Whatever gets you to the highest Cadence will maximize your speed.

Here is vid of Connor in full sprint mode -


« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 11:21:01 AM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2016, 11:12:01 AM »
Sample of video used for test.  Don't bother with the whole thing but you'll get the idea.  Notice how long my daughter takes to switch hands, and how many switches were made over a 100 meter course vs. Connor over 200 meters.


Chilly

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2016, 12:01:18 PM »
Cool science projects. I remember projects being made with things like Elmer’s glue, straws, and poster board. I wonder what they will be like in another 30 years.
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PonoBill

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2016, 12:27:42 PM »
Mine weren't. I usually started my next science project after the end of the state science fair--worked on it for eight months at least. Tons of major-league competition. The serious nerds did serious projects.
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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2016, 01:23:12 PM »
Back to your original question, although the techniques shown in the videos are somewhat different, they all agree that the hips should come back forward at the end of the stroke, before the paddle exits the water.  Like Larry Cain says, if you reset by bringing the hips forward after the paddle exits the water, you slow your board down during the recovery, when you want to maximize the glide of the board.  You want to have your hips move forward to meet the bottom hand towards the end of your stoke.
 
I like this video of Georges Cronsteadt which shows how the hip movement should create forward momentum at the end of the stroke, resulting in more glide between strokes:
https://www.facebook.com/robertogymtahiti/videos/473010436211879/

« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 01:25:24 PM by blueplanetsurf »
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Luc Benac

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2016, 02:11:29 PM »
Back to your original question, although the techniques shown in the videos are somewhat different, they all agree that the hips should come back forward at the end of the stroke, before the paddle exits the water.  Like Larry Cain says, if you reset by bringing the hips forward after the paddle exits the water, you slow your board down during the recovery, when you want to maximize the glide of the board.  You want to have your hips move forward to meet the bottom hand towards the end of your stoke.
 
I like this video of Georges Cronsteadt which shows how the hip movement should create forward momentum at the end of the stroke, resulting in more glide between strokes:
https://www.facebook.com/robertogymtahiti/videos/473010436211879/

Good post - thank you Robert.
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yugi

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2016, 02:29:34 PM »
^ yes

Except, me, I see hips ending up back, feet forward.

It's all relative. Now I understand why I wasn't getting what LC was saying.

Eagle

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2016, 03:17:09 PM »
If you want to lose weight EAT FEWER CALORIES.

If you want to go fast INCREASE YOUR STROKES PER MINUTE.

Conclusion for a Sprint: Whatever gets you to the highest Cadence will maximize your speed.

It's all relative. Now I understand why I wasn't getting what LC was saying.

^^^

Yeah strokes per minute and how much power is applied on each stroke is key.  That is what I found when I did my GPS sprint tests anyways.

Slow strokes per minute equated to slow speed.  And not 100% power application with not 100% good technique equated to slow speed.  By slow for me - this represents around 0.3 mph slower on peak and average.  I could easily feel the difference between 6.9 mph and 7.2 mph on the water.  6.9 was slow and draggy -> whereas 7.2 felt good and efficient.

Interestingly the speed increase over my set 5 mile course on the 23 AS worked out to around 4.3% faster than my previous fastest time using my 27.5 Dom.  So for me anyways - the narrower board is considerably faster on the ocean in relatively docile ripple conditions.

Do whatever works best for you.   ;)
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Esteroali

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2016, 03:22:12 PM »
Thank you Robert. I think I understand it now. That Facebook post in the gym is a perfect visualization of the drive motion. It is so hard to describe in words, and it seems subtle difference in timing are key to making it work. I get now that the hips need to move forward while the blade is still engaged. Right?
My background is rowing, specifically single sculling. Stroke theory teaches there is no catch or finish to the stroke it's a continuous cycle. It helps me to think of SUP stroke that way also.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2016, 04:02:32 PM by Esteroali »

Luc Benac

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2016, 03:54:48 PM »
^ yes

Except, me, I see hips ending up back, feet forward.

It's all relative. Now I understand why I wasn't getting what LC was saying.

Hey Yugi,
I was seeing the same thing until the seventh time I watched it and the movement of the hips seems indeed relative to where they start and where they end rather than in absolute relation to the feet. It seems to me that it is a very subtle movement with not necessarily a lot of amplitude. Think yoga rather than full on crunches :-) It does feel like a major contribution of the abs/core to "squeeze" the hips slightly forward.

Cheers,
Luc




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blueplanetsurf

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2016, 04:08:18 PM »
Thank you Robert. I think I understand it now. That Facebook post in the gym is a perfect visualization of the drive motion. It is so hard to describe in words, and it seems subtle difference in timing are key to making it work. I get now that the hips need to move forward while the blade is still engaged. Right?
Yes, it is very subtle.  I focus on having the hip come forward to meet the bottom hand at the end of the stroke, and release the paddle where the hip and the hand meet.
Robert Stehlik
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blueplanetsurf

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2016, 04:16:10 PM »
Also, when you look at the video, watch how his hips drive forward in relation to the upper body, while the lower body drives the sled forward.
Robert Stehlik
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mrbig

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2016, 05:27:51 PM »
Mahalos Robert! That FB vid made sense out of a confusing situation..
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Luc Benac

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Re: Hips and the drive.
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2016, 08:18:53 PM »
Found another nice post on Seabreeze, a good find by AndyR about Travis Grant technique:

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