Author Topic: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.  (Read 34572 times)

Ichabod Spoonbill

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2016, 08:17:22 AM »
It's hard to convince beginners that things can go badly wrong. The whole paddling thing seems so simple, so easy.
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photofr

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2016, 09:05:30 AM »
It's hard to convince beginners that things can go badly wrong. The whole paddling thing seems so simple, so easy.

In the late 80's, SURFSKI paddlers didn't die at sea because they couldn't get back on their skis. Since there were no "easy" skis, since all skis were pretty much elite skis, you took two strokes and fell out of the ski. Sounds simple, and it was: you VERY quickly learned to get back on your ski - and got plenty of practice.

Today's stable surfski (since about 2011) has changed this: there are now surfski accidents that could have been very easily avoided. The same is true for SUP:

FIRST PROBLEM
There are people on very stable boards who never EVER practice getting on and off their boards in deep and cold water.

OTHER PROBLEMS
You can follow the law and have a PFD on the deck of your SUP, but what good will this do to the person having a heart attack?

The PFD, without a doubt, will help some people in many cases - just like:
A helmet worn while driving a car will help prevent head injuries in car crashes.

WHAT'S NEXT?
Will you pass a law stating that all car drivers and passengers should have a helmet?
Will you also pass a law to ensure that ever single surfer, SUP surfer, and long distance SUP paddler wears a PFD and a HELMET?

Plus, the whole PFD set out by the Coast Guard is a bit of a nonsense:
1- the requirement is to have it on board, not on you.
2- the minimum required by law is to have a type III PFD, which will NOT keep your head out of the water should you become unconscious.
3- you should try jumping off your board in cold water (with a type III vest in rough seas) and then come back and tell me how that really helped you.
4- people who are inconfortable in the water THINK they will be okay the second they done a type III vest.

That doesn't mean you shouldn't wear a PFD... it just means that we are back to square ONE:
Understand your limits.
Understand gear limitations.
Do not blindly copy the mass.
Take responsibilities and learn something that may save your life at sea.
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yugi

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2016, 09:37:37 AM »
When looking at that lake you'd think you could toss a cookie across.

Most accidents of that nature seem to happen within "toss a cookie" distance from shore.


yugi

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2016, 09:40:33 AM »
It's hard to convince beginners that things can go badly wrong. The whole paddling thing seems so simple, so easy.



WHAT'S NEXT?
Will you pass a law stating that
 …

That law has already been passed. It’s called “Darwin’s Law”.

Sad but true.

pdxmike

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2016, 12:48:27 PM »
This sentence from the article stood out to me:

"It’s unclear what caused the woman to fall into the water."

That sounds silly to anyone here--of course falling in is part of standup.  But if the writer wrote it, that means some beginner paddlers (not necessarily these ones) must also believe it--that falling in isn't something you need to worry about. Combine that view with a dead calm lake, and you can imagine people feeling OK about going out on a board with no swimming ability at all.  In all the discussions about drowning and pfds, I don't remember this being discussed--that people may be going out with no swimming ability and no pfds because they don't believe there's a chance they'll fall in.

Quickbeam

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2016, 01:01:04 PM »
This sentence from the article stood out to me:

"It’s unclear what caused the woman to fall into the water."

That sounds silly to anyone here--of course falling in is part of standup.  But if the writer wrote it, that means some beginner paddlers (not necessarily these ones) must also believe it--that falling in isn't something you need to worry about. Combine that view with a dead calm lake, and you can imagine people feeling OK about going out on a board with no swimming ability at all.  In all the discussions about drowning and pfds, I don't remember this being discussed--that people may be going out with no swimming ability and no pfds because they don't believe there's a chance they'll fall in.



Yes, I think that’s probably part of it. Our sport just looks so easy. I mean if you rent a stable enough board, there’s nothing to it. Until of course, the wind comes up on the lake, or a boat goes by giving off a large wake. And then all of a sudden you’re in the water. And of course you’re not wearing the life jacket because you don’t have to - it only has to be on the board. So the life jackets on the board and board is floating away because you don’t have a leash on and all of a sudden you’re in serious trouble.
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Bean

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2016, 01:04:16 PM »
...Plus, the whole PFD set out by the Coast Guard is a bit of a nonsense:
1- the requirement is to have it on board, not on you.


The CG PFD regs are clearly a compromise for boats of all sizes, but never contemplated SUPs.  It makes sense that adults don't need to have to wear their PFD's when they are on most boats since falling overboard is not expected.  This changes as boats get smaller however, and falling overboard while taking a leak is very common. 

Trouble is, if we lobby for specific rules for SUP we could get more than we bargained for.   

Quickbeam

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2016, 01:46:57 PM »
Trouble is, if we lobby for specific rules for SUP we could get more than we bargained for.


Yes, that’s the danger for sure.

I do think there needs to be better regulation, but not over regulation. A requirement that leases and PFD’s must be worn (maybe with an exemption for PFD’s when surfing) would be fine with me. Maybe also a requirement that rental companies provide PFD’s and leashes.
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ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

Quickbeam

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #23 on: August 03, 2016, 01:52:00 PM »
And just in thinking about this, if we don’t lobby for better regulations, it may get done anyway. With all the deaths happening, sooner or later someone is going to do something, and if we don’t get on top of it ourselves, we may very well not like what we get.

Infinity Blackfish 12’ 6” x 23”
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 24”
Infinity Whiplash 12' 6" x 24 1/2"
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

photofr

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #24 on: August 03, 2016, 02:09:30 PM »
Indeed, you have to be careful what you wish for.

Perhaps you want everyone to wear PFD while paddling their SUP, but they won’t – so you make them with a new law. Then you realize that there are still accidental deaths, so you make all stand up paddlers wear a helmet. When that doesn’t work and when people are still dying in winter, you make everyone wear a cold water survival suit (I don’t mean a thin wetsuit).

If you are not sure where this is going, I’ll give you a hint:
Think about an Outrigger Canoe paddler, wearing a super bulky Class I lifevest (not a PFD), forced to wear a helmet at all times, as well as a survival suit in Hawaiian waters… because officials will prove that no one can survive swimming for 30 hours without a survival suit.

Training is what is needed - not new laws
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Easy Rider

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2016, 02:23:59 PM »
It is Education that is needed not Regulation.

The entire SUP industry needs to come together - and fast - on this issue or it will be regulated by others.   

Manufactures / Distributors / Retailers / Rental companies / Instructors / and the SUP media Industry (all of it) need to educate the general public not only as to the dangers of the sport - but also the most basic of safety measures. 

Swimming ability / Leashes / PFD's all need to be addressed. 

It is ease of entry into the sport that is causing the problems. 
People look and images on line and in print of healthy / fit people on glassy water / in sunny and warm conditions and think "how hard can it be?" 

As an eye opener - do a google image search of "Stand Up Paddle" 
Look at how few images show any sort of safety. 
Kinda scary.
Easy Rider is the name of my store in Edmonton, AB, Canada.
My name is Warren Currie . . . and we SUP Surf indoors . . . in a shopping mall!

Quickbeam

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2016, 05:05:03 PM »
It is Education that is needed not Regulation.

The entire SUP industry needs to come together - and fast - on this issue or it will be regulated by others.   

Manufactures / Distributors / Retailers / Rental companies / Instructors / and the SUP media Industry (all of it) need to educate the general public not only as to the dangers of the sport - but also the most basic of safety measures. 

Swimming ability / Leashes / PFD's all need to be addressed. 

It is ease of entry into the sport that is causing the problems. 
People look and images on line and in print of healthy / fit people on glassy water / in sunny and warm conditions and think "how hard can it be?" 

As an eye opener - do a google image search of "Stand Up Paddle" 
Look at how few images show any sort of safety. 
Kinda scary.


O.K., I agree. An excellent post and I agree with all your points.

However, if the education doesn’t happen then something else needs to, because there are just way too many people dying in our sport. It’s crazy the number of people that are dying in what should be a relatively safe sport. If people simply wore PFD’s and leashes I would hazard a guess that there wouldn’t be near the fatalities we are seeing now.

So I agree, let’s get on with the education, because if it doesn’t happen there will be regulation, and it will probably be more than we need or want. And if the education doesn’t happen, then how can you not support at least some kind of minimal regulation to save lives? I don’t want to wear helmets or be mandated to wear full immersion gear or anything like that, but again, if no education is forthcoming, I would support regulations for PFD’s (not in surf) and leashes.
Infinity Blackfish 12’ 6” x 23”
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 24”
Infinity Whiplash 12' 6" x 24 1/2"
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

pdxmike

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2016, 05:37:05 PM »
Yes, education comes first, and to me, swimming is key.  SUPs are like giant pool toys.  Pools don't allow toys you can float on because they allow people to go into deeper water in the pool than they can handle, then they fall off and drown.  The difference is the SUPs can float you out into places far worse than the deep end of a warm pool with a lifeguard. 

As others have said, things like swimming ability and common sense are the keys to safety, but they're not easy to give credit for in regulations.  I don't want to carry a paddler's license.

For regulations, I'd replace the "pfd on the vessel" with "wear either a leash or pfd".  Although I almost always wear an inflatable pfd, I'd object to being required to wear one.

Regulations alone won't do much.  Most people drowning now are already ignoring them, not even carrying a pfd.

Quickbeam

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2016, 11:36:22 AM »
From today's Distressed Mullet. Maybe something is starting to happen!






SUPIA, ACA and industry leaders talk abotu safety
We were pleased to be a part of a preliminary safety policy meeting spearheaded by the SUPIA (Stand Up Paddle Industry Association) and the ACA (American Canoe and Kayak Association) to discuss standardized best practices recommendations for paddlers, manufacturers, retailers and rental businesses. It was a very productive meeting and the beginning of a long but important process.

It was fantastic to see the SUPIA step up and drive this with the ACA, bringing experienced, passionate but rational experts together to discuss a roadmap toward reducing injuries and fatalities in our sport. I left the meeting feeling inspired and energized and felt we'll be able to move in a positive direction as a community and a sport.

While I can't give out all the details yet, I can say that there were three things that seemed universally accepted. The first is that a PFD attached to a board simply for compliance to national laws does very little to protect paddlers. Second, the original classification of SUPs as crafts was made too early to be able to foresee how the sport would grow and evolve and had they known where we'd be now, the regulations would be quite different. And finally, if we don't step up as an industry and a sport and find ways to keep our people safe, Coast Guard, State and Local agencies will.

I applaud the SUPIA and the ACA for taking this leadership role and look forward to accompanying them on this journey on the safety committee. It seems that each week we lose another paddler to drownings that for the most part, seem preventable by either wearing an appropriate leash, and/or wearing a lifejacket or flotation assisting device. The work we all do in the next few years will save hundreds if not thousands of future paddlers and help preserve all the things we love about this sport.

—John
Infinity Blackfish 12’ 6” x 23”
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 24”
Infinity Whiplash 12' 6" x 24 1/2"
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

Easy Rider

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Re: Make sure you have a life jacket with you.
« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2016, 01:04:35 PM »
^^^ Great to hear.  I guess almost a year worth of emails is finally making something happen.
Easy Rider is the name of my store in Edmonton, AB, Canada.
My name is Warren Currie . . . and we SUP Surf indoors . . . in a shopping mall!

 


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