Author Topic: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.  (Read 7596 times)

mrbig

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2016, 07:27:46 AM »
Riding my 9'4" King's "Monsterpiece" as a twin fin is fun fo sho!

Both with the little trailer and without! Loosy goosy..
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 07:30:46 AM by mrbig »
Let it come to you..
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supthecreek

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2016, 09:48:29 AM »
This is just my opinion and I was wondering if anyone else would agree.  Many people who ride big boards in small surf, use fins that are too big.  I have found, over the years, that big boards turn better with small fins.  I am tending to use fins that are just barely big enough to keep the board from sliding out, and that loosens my big boards up tremendously.  Seems to me that big boards have so much rail area that it compensates for smaller fins so you don't need a big 10" fin and sidebites.  Same with quad boards. 

Exceptions:
Bigger, steeper waves.  You need the fin area there.
Boards that are single fin.  I'm only talking about thruster and up. 

Agree?  Disagree?

I respectfully Disagree. :)
Thread scenario is: big boards in small waves....

Most of my big boards have the thruster option.
I use them in bigger waves, but not in small waves, because the thrusters are stickier, and provide less drive.

I find a big single, back in the box works better, if I am looking for a snappy turn.
Note:
I prefer long boards with significant tail rocker.... the bigger fin, back in the box, works with this tail.

I like a big, stiff, wide base fin, like I had on my 10'6 Naish Alana.
Monster 10.5", wide base... fiberglass....wahoo! (pic#1)

My feeling is... fins give back what you give them
I get a ton of drive in weak waves.... it's what allows me to throw a turn, without juice.
Like a skateboard on a flat parking lot
Compress, uncoil, your thrust into the wheels is converted to forward speed because the parking lot doesn't move... so the board has to.

In our "small surf" scenario, the fin's resistance to the water, is all we have to "push" off from.... my big based, stiff fin, takes my body energy and converts it to thrust.

On a weak, gutless wave, I can literally create the thrust needed, to support a solid turn, by "pushing off" from my wide base fin.

Big fin drag doesn't even come into play in small waves. 

Bean

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2016, 10:27:03 AM »
Nicely explained STC. 

surfinJ

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2016, 11:30:25 AM »
I not sure what this means  :o. I do exactly the opposite.  Fin forward for loose in the small and back for higher speed, bigger.

The swing turn with the foot back, that'll always go.

supsurf-tw

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2016, 11:43:12 AM »
As usual, fin size and shape is relative to the board that they're used on. Fins are much more than just something that "holds you in". There's the drive factor for one and the most important factors is the ability to balance out the handling of the board.
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Badger

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2016, 11:55:22 AM »
It's not just fin size and board length. Rider weight is also a factor. Isn't it common knowledge that heavier riders require bigger fins?

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Zooport

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2016, 04:15:35 PM »
This is just my opinion and I was wondering if anyone else would agree.  Many people who ride big boards in small surf, use fins that are too big.  I have found, over the years, that big boards turn better with small fins.  I am tending to use fins that are just barely big enough to keep the board from sliding out, and that loosens my big boards up tremendously.  Seems to me that big boards have so much rail area that it compensates for smaller fins so you don't need a big 10" fin and sidebites.  Same with quad boards. 

Exceptions:
Bigger, steeper waves.  You need the fin area there.
Boards that are single fin.  I'm only talking about thruster and up. 

Agree?  Disagree?

I respectfully Disagree. :)
Thread scenario is: big boards in small waves....

Most of my big boards have the thruster option.
I use them in bigger waves, but not in small waves, because the thrusters are stickier, and provide less drive.

I find a big single, back in the box works better, if I am looking for a snappy turn.
Note:
I prefer long boards with significant tail rocker.... the bigger fin, back in the box, works with this tail.

I like a big, stiff, wide base fin, like I had on my 10'6 Naish Alana.
Monster 10.5", wide base... fiberglass....wahoo! (pic#1)

My feeling is... fins give back what you give them
I get a ton of drive in weak waves.... it's what allows me to throw a turn, without juice.
Like a skateboard on a flat parking lot
Compress, uncoil, your thrust into the wheels is converted to forward speed because the parking lot doesn't move... so the board has to.

In our "small surf" scenario, the fin's resistance to the water, is all we have to "push" off from.... my big based, stiff fin, takes my body energy and converts it to thrust.

On a weak, gutless wave, I can literally create the thrust needed, to support a solid turn, by "pushing off" from my wide base fin.

Big fin drag doesn't even come into play in small waves. 

Yeah, but you're a mutant   ;)  I've never seen anyone with such good footwork.  I've learned a lot from your footwork vid.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2016, 04:17:34 PM by Zooport »
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supthecreek

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2016, 06:31:12 PM »
ha ha... thanks Zoo  ;D

supthecreek

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2016, 05:43:34 AM »
I not sure what this means  :o. I do exactly the opposite.  Fin forward for loose in the small and back for higher speed, bigger.

The swing turn with the foot back, that'll always go.

Hi J..... with a big fin, the "swing turn" is more than simply raising the nose and pivoting a turn.....
it feels exactly like a driving "kick turn" on a skateboard

I can actually carve a small turn without juice, by "flicking" with my rear ankle... it pushes against the fin and gives me the burst I need to carry out the turn with some speed.

With a smaller fin, my push would give back nothing..... the tail would slide and all speed would be gone.

I made a short video that sort of shows what I'm describing.
it shows a series of turns after I have scrubbed off all speed..... you can see the nice little carve I get by driving off a big fin.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVb7i2-wenk

Zooport

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2016, 08:39:48 AM »
As usual, super nice big board technique.  I'm thinking that a single fin board is the ticket for that kind of riding.   Might not work as well with multiple fins. 
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NorthJerzSurfer

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2016, 01:11:54 PM »
This is just my opinion and I was wondering if anyone else would agree.  Many people who ride big boards in small surf, use fins that are too big.  I have found, over the years, that big boards turn better with small fins.  I am tending to use fins that are just barely big enough to keep the board from sliding out, and that loosens my big boards up tremendously.  Seems to me that big boards have so much rail area that it compensates for smaller fins so you don't need a big 10" fin and sidebites.  Same with quad boards. 

Exceptions:
Bigger, steeper waves.  You need the fin area there.
Boards that are single fin.  I'm only talking about thruster and up. 

Agree?  Disagree?

I respectfully Disagree. :)
Thread scenario is: big boards in small waves....

Most of my big boards have the thruster option.
I use them in bigger waves, but not in small waves, because the thrusters are stickier, and provide less drive.

I find a big single, back in the box works better, if I am looking for a snappy turn.
Note:
I prefer long boards with significant tail rocker.... the bigger fin, back in the box, works with this tail.

I like a big, stiff, wide base fin, like I had on my 10'6 Naish Alana.
Monster 10.5", wide base... fiberglass....wahoo! (pic#1)

My feeling is... fins give back what you give them
I get a ton of drive in weak waves.... it's what allows me to throw a turn, without juice.
Like a skateboard on a flat parking lot
Compress, uncoil, your thrust into the wheels is converted to forward speed because the parking lot doesn't move... so the board has to.

In our "small surf" scenario, the fin's resistance to the water, is all we have to "push" off from.... my big based, stiff fin, takes my body energy and converts it to thrust.

On a weak, gutless wave, I can literally create the thrust needed, to support a solid turn, by "pushing off" from my wide base fin.

Big fin drag doesn't even come into play in small waves. 

Yeah, but you're a mutant   ;)  I've never seen anyone with such good footwork.  I've learned a lot from your footwork vid.


STC- I think the only difference in fin box placement with the longboard style of riding in smalll waves is your pivot point,.  Based on your size and how far back you turn with your foot- box of the box certainly looks like it gives a boost on turns.

I run my single in the front of the box to be able to pivot faster without getting my trailing foot all the way to the back of the board. helps in small dumpy waves when i dont have as much time to walk the board to turn as I would on a fat wave.

Great longboard vid by the way....we havent had a wave in a month in NJ


OUTSIDEWAVE

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2016, 05:06:27 PM »
so does the same principal apply to multiple fins? say you are using quads 2.9 in and 3.0 inches  4 fins   is that like using   a big fin in terms of  area or is it he depth that makes the difference,  I use foiled  redfin 3 ds  I love them as either  a tri
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Billekrub

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2016, 10:15:33 PM »
Great video!

Why are you using 10 6 boards instead of the 9 footers to do this?  Because of the lower energies of the waves and added flat water speed, glide and stability?  Also they have the proper fin box in the center?

Any other reasons for using a large board in small surf, which many seem to prefer?




surfinJ

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2016, 04:05:03 AM »
Glide, to keep the fun level high in the low energy waves, if the pickin are slim the mobility keeps the session rolling.

I not sure what this means  :o. I do exactly the opposite.  Fin forward for loose in the small and back for higher speed, bigger.

The swing turn with the foot back, that'll always go.

Hi J..... with a big fin, the "swing turn" is more than simply raising the nose and pivoting a turn.....
it feels exactly like a driving "kick turn" on a skateboard

I can actually carve a small turn without juice, by "flicking" with my rear ankle... it pushes against the fin and gives me the burst I need to carry out the turn with some speed.

With a smaller fin, my push would give back nothing..... the tail would slide and all speed would be gone.

I made a short video that sort of shows what I'm describing.
it shows a series of turns after I have scrubbed off all speed..... you can see the nice little carve I get by driving off a big fin.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVb7i2-wenk

Exactly what I mean. A skateboard style kick turn. This has been in my repertoire for logs since I was a kid.

Zooport

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2016, 05:35:56 AM »
Great video!

Why are you using 10 6 boards instead of the 9 footers to do this?  Because of the lower energies of the waves and added flat water speed, glide and stability?  Also they have the proper fin box in the center?

Any other reasons for using a large board in small surf, which many seem to prefer?





I regularly ride a 10'2 in small surf because a big board makes it a lot more fun.  They catch gutless waves extremely easily, glide great and get going in minimal energy.  I'll ride an 8'5 or smaller board in better surf, but the big board is the ticket for tiny stuff.  Takes good foot technique to make them turn though.  Creek is the footwork guru. 


« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 05:41:39 AM by Zooport »
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