Author Topic: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.  (Read 7597 times)

Zooport

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This is just my opinion and I was wondering if anyone else would agree.  Many people who ride big boards in small surf, use fins that are too big.  I have found, over the years, that big boards turn better with small fins.  I am tending to use fins that are just barely big enough to keep the board from sliding out, and that loosens my big boards up tremendously.  Seems to me that big boards have so much rail area that it compensates for smaller fins so you don't need a big 10" fin and sidebites.  Same with quad boards. 

Exceptions:
Bigger, steeper waves.  You need the fin area there.
Boards that are single fin.  I'm only talking about thruster and up. 

Agree?  Disagree?
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NorthJerzSurfer

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2016, 01:27:48 PM »
100% agree.

On my 10'10 and 10'6 I use 7in notched fins or 8in max...neither are real noseriders so i use them to make the boards turn on wait high minus waves

my biggest is a Greenaugh stage 6 8in and only that big because of the design


mrbig

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2016, 01:33:41 PM »
Yessiree! Little boards bigger fins, bigger boards smaller fins.

My biggest SUP is my 9'4" King's and I use small Stretch FCS II thrusters in it. It actually turns even in smaller waves!

There is a thought out there, that bigger sups have so much rail, board, weight, lotsa stuff, that the less fin the better! Works for me!

Pic is my Molly Hatchet setup with tiny sides. Works a treat. Now sold in green!;

Your experience and opinions may differ.. ;D  ;D  ;D
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 01:47:30 PM by mrbig »
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Subber

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2016, 01:34:06 PM »
I agree.

With my Laird (10'6") when I'm trying to catch small somewhat mushy waves in competitive conditions,
I wanted the least drag as possible (to make it as easy for me as possible).   After trying lots and lots of fins
and fin combinations, I think small sidebites (3.5" or smaller) and a small middle fin - say even down to 4" -
work fine for small waves.    -- For big waves, I found I could use down to a 7.5" swept fin with the small side-bites.
You can even still noseride pretty good - you just can't go quite as far up on the nose without the tail pullling out.
But the board screams with the small fins (and sharper rails).

The thing with the Laird is it has fairly sharp edges in the tail - so I think the sharp edges
allow for smaller fins. 

I too used the method of shrinking everything down until the tail would slide out.
With small waves it is kind of fun to slide slip around turns.  I used a 7.5" Fins Unlimited Swept Fin
As A Single Fin with fun slip slidey results.  But you wouldn't want to use it like that on larger waves.

On my JL B&B (10'1") it is a bit different because the board has rounded rails all the way back.  With smaller fins,
the  B&B doesn't hold a line nearly as well while paddling, it tends to slip around as you paddle if you use
smaller fins.  Still it can be a fun challenge in small waves.

So, I guess part of it is the rail shape of the boards.
And, also what you are trying to do.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 01:41:46 PM by Subber »
Jimmy Lewis Black & Blue Noserider 10'1"x31"x4.25," 164 liters, 24 lbs, 1 box
Pearson Laird Surftech Longboard 10'6"x23"x29.75"x18"x4.375," 154 liters, 24 lbs, 3 boxes
Takayama Ali'i II Surftech 11'x21.375”x28.5”x17.25”x 4.25,” 162 liters, 26 lbs, 3 boxes

Subber

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2016, 01:37:33 PM »
Also, I have found that fin size and area affect stability quite a bit.

But, generally, if you have a bit wide board,
you're already pretty much covered, so you can use the smaller fins.

Sometimes it takes a while to get use to the different effects of changing
to smaller fins - stability, tipping and yawing - then you go back to
a big fin and its like you are on an aircraft carrier.
 8)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 01:55:39 PM by Subber »
Jimmy Lewis Black & Blue Noserider 10'1"x31"x4.25," 164 liters, 24 lbs, 1 box
Pearson Laird Surftech Longboard 10'6"x23"x29.75"x18"x4.375," 154 liters, 24 lbs, 3 boxes
Takayama Ali'i II Surftech 11'x21.375”x28.5”x17.25”x 4.25,” 162 liters, 26 lbs, 3 boxes

Beasho

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2016, 02:15:40 PM »
Yes:  Go smaller until your fins slide out.

Add to this that a fin is used for "Stability."  This is the opposite of maneuverability. 

I was talking to STRETCH, board designer in Santa Cruz.  He was the first, sane,legitimate shaper confirmed to me that "Those fins hanging off the back of a board are like dragging an anchor."   He, rather STRETCH sponsored Mavericks surfers like Nic Lamb who just won Mavs this spring, is running 4" fins on the Mavericks guns.  We talked about the camber and toe on a surfboard.  My stance has been that there should be NO camber on fins and NO toe in.  He confirmed that the bigger and faster the board is designed to ride, the maximum being big wave toe-in boards, the less of both Toe and Camber STRETCH uses (almost ZERO). 

Me speaking:  Two Opposing Single foils (Flat on one side) that are toe'd inward create drag, but add an incredible amount of stability.  The flat sided foil benefits from a low stall speed, meaning it will not slide out as easily as a double sided foil, however at the cost of drag.  Once you get up to speed the chance of sliding out becomes almost nothing.  Stretch further confirmed that at lower speeds boards are expected to go through wide changes in angle of attack (e.g turning left and right).  The Toe-in with Flat foils gives two overlapping stall profiles that handle slow speeds and snappy turns without stalling / spinning out.  However at higher speeds the angle of attack is nearly constant. 

Short story:  As board speed doubles, like going from 10 - 20 mph, the amount of lift generated by a fin quadruples according to Lift = 1/2 * Density * Speed ^2.  In layman's terms your fin just became 4 times larger.  Therefore you should need SMALLER FINS for bigger, faster waves and BIGGER FINS in smaller slow waves.  The only risk is the bounce.  When you bounce on a big wave, and the fins release, you are foo-barred.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 02:22:22 PM by Beasho »

mrbig

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2016, 02:37:41 PM »
Yowsah! JP no cant no toe on their short SUPS. Which are very fast BTW.

Beasho, I knew those small Stretch fins were good!

Pat Rawson 'splained fin size to me when I wanted to put giant JL quads (bigger than GL1's ) in one of his boards. Pat-San knew and I was lost in theoretical numbskull Ville.

Smallest mo bettah, hoale boy!!
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Tom

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2016, 02:58:08 PM »
Jet planes have smallist , swept back, thin fins. Slow planes have large, straight, thick fins. The same applies to surf fins

linter

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2016, 03:27:27 PM »
well, my feeling is if you want to ride a longboard SUP like a shortboard SUP, then ride a shortboard SUP and quit with all the wiggle-waggling.  ha ha just kidding, to each his own and all that.  but, i'm not a fan of progressive prone longboarding either.  i side with the trad crowd who word for word say the same thing i said about longboard supping.
   otoh, i couldn't longboard sup with small fins if i wanted to, so anything i say is no doubt double drenched with jealousy. 

mrbig

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2016, 04:36:44 PM »
In the original post there were exceptions. Single fin was one!!
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PonoBill

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2016, 05:38:50 PM »
I like specific fins for specific turns. I enjoy skidding the tail of my 10'4" Footie so I have a 6" middle fin usually and I swap in a 4 incher for when I'm feeling particularly skiddy. Quads? Little, yeah sure. Otherwise I tend to like big fins for the swoopyness. I'm sure that's a word though the spell checker doesn't agree, not even with an ie. Also if you're going to try to get to the nose, you probably want something long.
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Fog City Rider

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2016, 05:54:32 PM »
I agree based on my experience.  I liked using a small 2+1 on my 10'5 SB Drive, and I've been doing the same on my new "old" Surftech Laird 10'0... just using the stock fins which are 2 sidebites and a 6" center w/ a wide base.  Plenty of hold.  I've twin-finned the Laird on small days and had a blast, super loose & slide-o-matic.   
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Zooport

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2016, 07:02:33 PM »
I agree based on my experience.  I liked using a small 2+1 on my 10'5 SB Drive, and I've been doing the same on my new "old" Surftech Laird 10'0... just using the stock fins which are 2 sidebites and a 6" center w/ a wide base.  Plenty of hold.  I've twin-finned the Laird on small days and had a blast, super loose & slide-o-matic.   
I like specific fins for specific turns. I enjoy skidding the tail of my 10'4" Footie so I have a 6" middle fin usually and I swap in a 4 incher for when I'm feeling particularly skiddy. Quads? Little, yeah sure. Otherwise I tend to like big fins for the swoopyness. I'm sure that's a word though the spell checker doesn't agree, not even with an ie. Also if you're going to try to get to the nose, you probably want something long.

Me too!  I enjoy a bit of skid on a bigger board.  Really makes cutbacks fun.
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Bean

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2016, 07:49:52 PM »
The added benefit of running quads on my 10 footer is I can surf right through peak low tide on our 100% sand bar beach breaks.  Come to think of it, that is how I broke my foot last year...totally worth it!

surfinJ

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Re: Big boards: Many people use too much fin area for the conditions.
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2016, 01:45:43 AM »
The smallest of these I used this morning, 7",  all the way up in the box for the 2-3' waves.  Super loose but positive on the 10-6.

Swap fins out and move around in the box to suit the waves.


 


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