Author Topic: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?  (Read 10756 times)

tonyg

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Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« on: July 26, 2016, 07:18:12 AM »
I'm looking for some feedback from others on the fit of my fins.
I recently jumped in with both feet and bought two boards based on reviews here for myself and my wife.
We do not have a local dealer so I bought from a reputable dealer and the boards were directly shipped from the distributor to me.
2016 AllWave HRS 9'4" and 9'0" (as well as carbon paddles and leashes).

I have been in communication with the dealer who agreed there was an issue and contacted Fanatic.
I have provided detailed hi-resolution photos and videos but Fanatic refuses to admit that there is an issue.

The issue as I see it is that the fin-boxes are crap, way out of tolerance. I see on average 1/8" gap between the front of the finbox and the front of the fin. In some cases as much as 3/16", some cases slightly less than 1/8". Additionally it seems like the top of the finboxes are recessed almost 1/8" below the board surface. On some of the worst cases the set-screw won't even grab because it runs out of threads after going so deep. I won't go into detail on the otherwise horrible fit of the fins wrt needing to shim or sand.

I've included a sample of what I'm dealing with, including a comparison using a "Future" fin from my surfboard, how it fits in the same finbox and how it fits in the surfboard.

I have three kite-surf boards and a surfboard. The fit and quality of every finbox in those boards puts my AllWaves to shame.
Take a look at the pictures.

Is this normal and acceptable for these boards?
For those with the AllWave board, do yours look the same as this? Better?
If I were to sell down the road and upgrade would you buy this board?
Would you sell a board like this in good conscience?
Am I making too much of this? Is the standard, the quality on SUPs a lot different from surfboards?
Is it expected that you need to shim fins to push them forward in the box? How?

What would you do?

Thanks
Tony

nalu-sup

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2016, 01:22:44 PM »
My wife currently rides a 2016 7'11" AllWave Limited, and we previously owned 2015 AllWave 8'5" and 8'11" both in the HRS construction. Fins always fit very well; snug with no gaps, sometimes even needed to lightly tap them back in the box to get the front edge to slide in.
My own feeling is that the call is in the hands of the dealer; if he feels that it is an issue, then he is the one that needs to deal with his Fanatic rep to get the situation taken care of. One idea if Fanatic will not work with you would be to see if your dealer has any demo boards of the same year that are in good shape. If these do not have any fin box issues, maybe he could swap with you.
8'7" Sunova Flow 
8'8" Sunova SP25
9'0" Elua Makani
9'0" Tabou SupaSurf 
14' SIC Bullet 2020

WhatsSUP

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2016, 05:53:35 PM »
Here's a shot from my 2015 HRS 9'5" Allwave side (left) fin....the pic tells the story.  I've repeatedly stated on this forum how much I LOVE this board!  Hope this helps!
Jimmy Lewis B&B Flat nose 10'1"
Sunova Creek 9'4" 
TAVA 11'2"
NSP Element 11'
KeNalu Wiki paddle
Kialoa Insanity paddle
Misc other paddles

tonyg

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2016, 06:09:34 PM »
Thanks for the feedback guys, unfortunately not getting anywhere with this.
I've been trying to resolve this issue with the dealer and distributor since June 19th.
Figured I'd post here:
1) Is this the norm, are all boards are like this? (seemed unlikely)
2) Maybe someone from Fanatic sees this or at least you are all warned.

I thought I was paying for a quality product (other than the finboxes it's pretty good).
Seems obvious from the posts so far that this is not normal.
Still hopeful this will get resolved but things are not looking good.

Tony

supthecreek

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 04:40:44 AM »
Tony.... that sucks!
I just happen to have a 2016 9'0 Allwave HRS in my car.
I am delivering it from JimK's, to a guy in my area.

I grabbed the board and the fins, to check it out.... because I have always raved about Allwave HRS quality, I wanted to make sure this board was perfect before I deliver it.

All the fins provided fit perfectly, snug, tightened with normal screw depth.... zero wiggle.
I even took an older Prowave fin and that fit perfectly as well.
They have always had very consistent quality control, as shown by the Prowave/Allwave fin comparison shot

I also noted that Fanatic provided filler plugs for the unused fin slots.... nice touch!

I recommend:
Try a third set of Futures...  other than the one from your surfboard..... just to triple check.
Take really good pictures.... Take them and the ones here, and send them to both the dealer and Fanatic as a CC.
Then go to the dealer, if local, with the board

If the fins are not a defect size, then somehow, your board slipped through the cracks.... and that is exactly why there are warranties.
Fanatic is slow to respond to warranty issues and you need your dealer to push them.
Fanatic did replace a defective board for me once (defective handle... that they redesigned)... but only because JimK kept the pressure on them.

It's a good board, so don't lose faith, or give up....it should resolve in time.


NorthJerzSurfer

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 07:57:30 AM »
getting a nickel in between your fin and the box is not good.... :o


Bean

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 08:46:27 AM »
Although not the issue you might be having exactly, one thing to keep in mind about Futures boxes is that they come in 1/2" depth and 3/4" depth and are traditionally set up 3/4" front (where the rail is deeper) and 1/2" for the rears.    Since SUP's are naturally thicker than regular surfboards, some (maybe most) SUP manufacturers install 4, 3/4" fin boxes.  So, if you buy a quad fin set with 3/4" front tabs and 1/2" rears they will naturally appear to sit 1/4" deeper in the rear than the front (and that's ok).

I would expect the problem to be with the fins, it just does not seem likely that the Futures fin box would be the issue since they come out of a mold completely finished whereas the fin could be further machine finished by an over zealous tech.  (stranger things have happened). 

If you could measure the length and width of your fin boxes, I'm sure anyone of us on the zone could give you a benchmark comparison to rule out(in) the box.  Of course if the 4 boxes measure differently you have your answer.

tonyg

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 09:16:44 AM »
If you could measure the length and width of your fin boxes, I'm sure anyone of us on the zone could give you a benchmark comparison to rule out(in) the box.  Of course if the 4 boxes measure differently you have your answer.

Good suggestion Bean,
I'll try to do that this evening. I have two boards and have already tried swapping fins around to get the best possible fit so if it is the fins then there are multiple fin problems, although there is variability in the fins. Again the other issue is the set screws, you can't torque some of them at all, seems like they are threaded in butter. Again, I think these fin boxes are low quality and out of spec but will measure.
Tony

JimK

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2016, 04:28:12 PM »
I posted this but it doesn't seem to have posted So sorry if this duplicates

Tony,

Been on the phone back and forth with Futures Since Fanatic says its a future box issue they can't control but have offered another set of fins to try but I'm not sure that would solve it.

Futures Says
Box length (Interior) is + or - .060"
They confirm Fanatic is a customer of their's
FUTURE says FUTURE fins run + or - .020" on the root dimensions
Futures does NOT SELL FINS TO FANATIC So I assume the Fanatic fins are made in the Cobra factory (can't get tolerance on these)

The Solutions available
** I suggested shifting fins around between boards earlier So if that fixes it great if not we have 2 other options

A) I'll send you a set of FUTURE JM Tri Set fins a "slight" performance fin upgrade to the Fanatic fins If they work we'll swap out the other set for JM's

B) Fanatic's solution is to try another set from them (not confident that as a solution but hey it could work) or shim the original fins to the boxes. Which might be easiest

Sorry it took a couple of days but these tolerances aren't easy to find someone who will talk to me

JimK
Extreme Windsurfing

exiled

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2016, 04:46:04 PM »
I have had an out of spec futures box on a board before. Just ended up shimming it and it worked fine. I'm not the type to take out my fins after every session.

That's a pretty dodgy answer from Fanatic though. They have total control over what they put in their boards.

Bean

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2016, 05:26:14 PM »
The Futures box opening should be 4 1/2"x 5/16" so, if yours are close its a fin issue.

Jim's solution sounds like a win/win.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 05:32:52 PM by Bean »

tonyg

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2016, 06:47:09 PM »
I've just made some more measurements.
All the thruster fin boxes are 4-5/8" long except one.
The exception is the Left thruster on the 9'0" board which is 4-11/16" long (which is the one in the pics above).
If the boxes are supposed to be 4-1/2" then that seems like an issue in all cases.
I did not bother to measure the blanked quad boxes but expect similar results.

I'm willing to try other fins but not optimistic.
All but one of the fin bases measure 4-7/16" which seems to make sense.
The exception, center fin on the 9'4" measures 4-1/2".

As far as shimming, should you need to shim the fin at the back to push it forward?
How would you even do that? Does not seem right to me.

As far as tolerance on the fin box interior, +/- 0.060" equates to just under 1/16", so 4-7/16" to 4-9/16".
Fin box lengths of 4-5/8" and  4-11/16" are out of tolerance.

I understand it is hard to appreciate the extent of the issue without the board in your hands but it is actually worse when you see the fit and go through the process to tighten the set screws.

I don't take the fins out unless traveling distances when I need to stack both boards but that doesn't mean that the fins don't need to fit.

If I were Fanatic I would want to make this right, do the right thing ... Warranty? What Warranty??

Again, I've said before that I am happy to try other fins, I don't believe that to be the issue but would be happy to be wrong.

Tony

ogdog

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2016, 07:21:44 PM »
supthecreek, that board could not be in better hands, .  Talk to you soon.
9' 0 allwave
11' laird
12' 6" Naish Javelin

supthecreek

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2016, 08:13:50 PM »
ogdog....

I have it in the living room, ready and waiting  ;D

Bean

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Re: Fanatic AllWave Fin-box Issues?
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2016, 09:09:35 PM »
I've just made some more measurements.
All the thruster fin boxes are 4-5/8" long except one.
The exception is the Left thruster on the 9'0" board which is 4-11/16" long (which is the one in the pics above).

We're only 1/8" apart on our measurements (mine came from a Corban with Futures boxes) and in your case, only one box is off by 1/16", I would give the new fins a chance.

 


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