Author Topic: SUP Demo Fees  (Read 14543 times)

pdxmike

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #30 on: July 25, 2016, 04:51:25 PM »
Wow. You must have trouble staying in relationships.
Relationships? What are those? ;D

Russian Single(fin)s perhaps?   ;D
What makes the boards harder to demo is you can't just ask a board to say, "Moose and squirrel".

TallDude

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #31 on: July 25, 2016, 05:14:50 PM »
....
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

2Rivers

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #32 on: July 25, 2016, 05:22:46 PM »
We don't have any true race boards in our demo fleet as the percentage of race board sales is so small that it doesn't make sense. 
However, we do stock race boards - and if you want to "demo" a brand new board - fresh off the shelf - we do charge a minimum of $50. (which can be put towards the purchase) for this - - and I then meet the customer at our local paddle lake for them to try it. 
I've never had a shop offer to let me demo a brand new board out of their stock. To be honest, I'd be uncomfortable with that. I used to be in retail, so I know what challenges that process can pose. I'd feel bad, because like you said, once that board leaves the shop, they'll never be able to sell it at full margin.
I think what you stated about not having any race boards in your stock is actually common place. I blame that factor as one of the reasons it's been so long for me to find a board. Actually it was shops like this that went the route of trying to set me up with their rep to demo the boards I was looking at. Sadly even the reps didn't have in their demo fleet the boards that I was looking at. I could demo a Dominator, but no D2. I could demo a Phoenix 29", but no 27". So frustrating!
« Last Edit: July 25, 2016, 05:29:40 PM by 2Rivers »
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2Rivers

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #33 on: July 25, 2016, 05:29:10 PM »
2rivers--I have some sympathy for you in regard to shops having only one or two of the boards you're interested in.  Even apart from demo fees, it's tough trying one board one place in one set of conditions, then another somewhere else in other conditions.  The best demo is when you can go back and forth between boards in one session.
Very true! I would love to be able to demo more than 3 boards in the same location and conditions. Feeling one board on Tahoe chop and then other on a butter smooth lake doesn't make for a good demo'ing experience to compare boards.
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TallDude

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2016, 05:48:25 PM »
2Rivers, perhaps you should let us know exactly which model(s) you are interested in trying/buying, someone here might have one you can try or can give you some feedback.
404 V3
Bark D2
Coreban Phoenix
Lakeshore Stealth (I've demo'ed this)
Pau Hana Viper (I've demo'ed this)
JP Race
SIC X14 Pro

I'm looking for 14'x26-27" boards in the 220-250L range.

These are all good boards and similar. My opinion.

404 V3 (not the fastest in flat water. More open water board. ? on quality)
Bark D2 ( Bark's first move to a straight flat foot well. I never liked the center massed feel of the Dominator)
Coreban Phoenix ( Mike Day shaped. Cool guy and a good shaper that actually races himself. Flat water board)
Lakeshore Stealth (I've demo'ed this) (Same .... Mike Day and similar by no coincidence )
Pau Hana Viper (I've demo'ed this) (Strange design. Not sure about performance on flat water. A lot of rocker.)
JP Race ( Not a fan of super low volume tails and Beluga noses. I'd be stretching my calves the whole paddle.  )
SIC X14 Pro (  :)   Nice. )
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

Eagle

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2016, 06:05:27 PM »
The retailers here demo no more than 3 brands and and maybe 15 boards total.  Trying to demo each of your specific boards firsthand will pretty tough.  The D2 and SIC are pretty good boards though.  Out of them would go for the X-14 Pro in SCC if available.   ;)

https://youtu.be/qx2iwCuJ8oo

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https://youtu.be/GFif-SYoMp4
Fast is FUN!   8)
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Fog City Rider

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2016, 07:26:45 PM »
I want to thank everyone for their responses. Great feedback!
 I never thought demoing a new SUP would be so challenging and expensive. I'm now thinking this sport maybe isn't for me.
Wow. You must have trouble staying in relationships. I think you are going to have to step up to the plate, and purchase a board that may be less than perfect. All boards are a compromise. I have boards for different conditions, but none are good in all conditions. It sounds like you've narrowed it down enough to take a leap of faith. You can always divorce your imperfect board, sell it, and buy another one down the road.

This is sage advice.  I have compassion for you since I'm a "finnicky" shopper who tends to overthink things... but dude, you're missing out on valuable paddling time by putting off the eventual purchase! 

You may never be able to demo every board on your ever-changing list.  Even if you do, you may still be confused about which is best!  And by the time you buy one, something else will always come out that seems even more perfect!  So no matter what, you will never be 100% satisfied that you're on the best board for you. 

These are the breaks, my friend.  Try not to let it stop you from the joys of actually paddling.  And for that, any board is better than no board. 

The good news is, you have it fairly narrowed down and all the boards have more in common than any of their differences.  My only advice would be, don't go too narrow if you're not all about racing.  Stability is nice. 

Has anyone ever in the history of the Zone been unhappy with a Bark or an SIC X-series?  Probably not. 

And lastly, I had a 12'6 Sonic demo when I worked at CCK (it's a 12'6 version of the Phoenix), and the tracking and glide on that thing was UNREAL once I learned you're supposed to stand far forward on it and sink the nose.  I think that's a great choice for flatwater to mild chop.
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Quickbeam

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2016, 10:33:19 PM »
It sounds to me like you are new to the sport and I am assuming this will be your first board??? In this situation I can certainly understand your reluctance to buy a board without doing a demo. Have you ever thought of looking for a used board? I’m sure that in most cases someone selling a used board would allow a demo. This would allow you to get a board that won’t cost as much as purchasing new, and you’ll also get to demo first.

And after you get some experience, you’ll have a better idea of what you do and don’t like without having to demo. I am a very careful shopper. I always do my research and find as much information, etc., etc., before I buy. For my first few boards I always demo’d them before I bought. Should also note that it just turned out pretty lucky, that any time I’ve had a demo at a dealers, I’ve bought a board from that dealer. In any case, just recently I found myself in a situation where there was a board I was very interested in but there was just no way for me to get a demo. It wasn’t a matter of paying for a demo, there just wasn’t a board to have a demo on. I rolled the dice and ordered the board and was very happy I did. And now I’ve just ordered another board without a demo. Don’t have this one yet so don’t know how it will turn out.

My point is that if you get more experience you will be more comfortable knowing what you want. I would still rather demo if I could, but at least with experience you will have more knowledge and a better comfort level. Don’t let your frustrations on this issue turn you off the sport. It is a great, great sport and I think if you just keep looking you’ll find what you want and hopefully you’ll be glad you stuck with it.
Actually I've been a avid paddler for almost 7+ years now. I used to be a big proponent of iSUPs, so I've been using them all of this time. I realized about 2+ years ago that I wanted more than my iSUP could deliver. First I figured out my ideal board volume for my weight to get a benchmark for what I should be focusing on. Now board shape and how that translates to feel and performance have been my main focus moving forward.
What's been frustrating to me is trying to finding out the differences in the shapes and how that effects the ride. I could go buy any 220L+ board and it may be ideal for my weight, but I may hate the glide or the balance of the board. Volume is only one component of the story. Unfortunately there's no calculator for finding the best shape. That can only be done by demo'ing.


Yes, sorry. You posted the list of boards you wanted to demo after my post, and once I saw your list I kind of figured you were not new to the sport. Sorry for my incorrect assumption.
Infinity Blackfish 12’ 6” x 23”
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 24”
Infinity Whiplash 12' 6" x 24 1/2"
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

2Rivers

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #38 on: July 26, 2016, 11:14:40 AM »
Yes, sorry. You posted the list of boards you wanted to demo after my post, and once I saw your list I kind of figured you were not new to the sport. Sorry for my incorrect assumption.
No apologies needed. :)
I truly appreciate that you took the time to respond. At the time you only had a bit of info about me and what I was looking for. Based on my statements, I can see how you thought I was a newby to this sport. Thank you again for your input and enthusiasm for the sport. Cheers!
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2Rivers

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #39 on: July 26, 2016, 11:50:33 AM »
These are all good boards and similar. My opinion.

404 V3 (not the fastest in flat water. More open water board. ? on quality)
Bark D2 ( Bark's first move to a straight flat foot well. I never liked the center massed feel of the Dominator)
Coreban Phoenix ( Mike Day shaped. Cool guy and a good shaper that actually races himself. Flat water board)
Lakeshore Stealth (I've demo'ed this) (Same .... Mike Day and similar by no coincidence )
Pau Hana Viper (I've demo'ed this) (Strange design. Not sure about performance on flat water. A lot of rocker.)
JP Race ( Not a fan of super low volume tails and Beluga noses. I'd be stretching my calves the whole paddle.  )
SIC X14 Pro (  :)   Nice. )
Thank you so much for the feedback on these models. Truly appreciated!
I know that SIC and Bark are both forum favorites. These are both strong contenders at this point.
I also had the same feelings about quality on the 404. I've also heard about some quality issues on the Lakeshore boards as well, so both brands I'm a bit hesitant about.
The Viper felt pretty good on the flats when I demo'ed it. The shape had me wondering too. Maybe it's more of an "all around" race shape?
Coreban and JP are a little harder to come by, but I would love to give them a spin. The JP Race (flatwater version) looks about the same as most brands at the nose. You're not talking about their downwind version are you? That one sure has a "beluga" nose. Note that I've never seen a JP in person, so I'm just going off the pics online.
Thanks again!
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mrbig

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #40 on: July 26, 2016, 12:57:42 PM »
Couple of random thoughts. When 404 was manufactured by Rivera the quality was not good. That is why 404 started making their production boards elsewhere. The earlier issues have been resolved.

I have no relationship with either 404 or Riveria. A local shop carries them.

I own a JP race and it is very fast in glassy conditions. Very tippy compared to other boards. The bottom is not flat, but has a raised spine..

Good luck 🍀 with your search.
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andygere

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #41 on: July 26, 2016, 01:18:40 PM »
I haven't purchased a new board in a while, but I've had pretty good luck with manufacturer's reps providing demos over the years. This may be a function of living in an ocean-side town with a strong SUP community, and number of races every year and a lot of good surf. It's also easy to see why most shops don't have a huge fleet of specialized race boards to demo, and why they need to have some sort of fee structure (credited towards purchase) for the boards that they do have.  Unless you are in an area where there is a big racing community and a lot of shops, it may be impossible to get a ride on all of your wish-list boards.  Before I bought my Bark 14 Dominator, I had a chance to paddle one at a race because the SurfTech rep had them there for that purpose.  I eventually bought a used one from a friend, who went custom shortly after buying a new production Dominator, but I already knew what I wanted by then.  Bottom line, you may be better off buying a board that you know you like because you have had a chance to ride it, rather than trying every possible model in an attempt to get the ideal board. At $2500+, I get why you want to try before you buy.  The reality is that the internet and catalogs are full of boards that rarely see the shop floors in any numbers, and the likelihood of finding one of these specialty boards in a local shop fleet is nearly nil.  I suspect that many of these high-end race boards are special ordered by dealers for customers, and often never see the rack.

I will share this data point: I was at a local race in Santa Cruz this weekend, and I paddled with a guy on a new D2 for a while.  He seemed like a competent paddler and looked really fit, but the board was borrowed and he was falling off a lot in relatively calm ocean conditions.  It looked really tippy to me, compared to my old-school Gen 1 Dominator, and the racer on it said as much. 

SUPflorida

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #42 on: July 26, 2016, 05:40:23 PM »
Question....Why isn't the SIC FX on your list? Seems like it would be a better one board solution. Might be easier to find a demo on since it's a more current design. And the way the designs are heading it might be more stable at 25 than some of the older designs at 26 or 27.

Mark R. was saying in one of his videos, it has a lot to do with the bottom width from rail to rail at the standing area rather than overall width. You can see it in some of the newer designs,  having a less tuck in the rail, especially under the standing area.

2Rivers

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2016, 07:26:43 PM »
Question....Why isn't the SIC FX on your list? Seems like it would be a better one board solution. Might be easier to find a demo on since it's a more current design. And the way the designs are heading it might be more stable at 25 than some of the older designs at 26 or 27.
I'd be curious what people here have to say about this model. I spoke to shop today that stocks SIC boards and they felt that going with the X Pro would be the better choice vs the FX. I could do the X Pro-Lite, but they agreed that since I'm not racing I should go with the 26" model. They seemed more concerned about the volume for my weight and my paddling conditions.
Looks like the FX compares against the SB All Star 25" which are both more "all around" race boards. Where I paddle it's mostly calm, flat conditions. No down-winding, but occasionally some down-breezing. Maybe that's why the FX wasn't recommended?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 07:29:51 PM by 2Rivers »
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Easy Rider

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Re: SUP Demo Fees
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2016, 09:41:33 AM »
I don't want to sound harsh - sorry in advance if it comes off this way - but it might just be best to get one of the boards on our list - and just go paddle it.  You will get used to it, and have FUN. 
Just a thought.
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