Author Topic: Types of exercises that benefit SUP  (Read 16468 times)

supsurf-tw

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2016, 06:37:21 PM »
Any activity that makes you pay more attention to how you move is going to be a good one. What I mean by strength training is just that-strength training. Not bodybuilding, power lifting, or olympic lifting. Although those movements can be involved, they are not the goal. Your goal isn't to get as big as a house only to become stronger and more efficient with the body type you have and or want. In my 3 plus decades of coaching athletes in strength and conditioning I have yet to hear any podium finisher say " Gee, I would have done better if only I was a little weaker." I would recommend using strength training, once again not circuit training or body building, to get the movement pattern muscles stronger and more efficient. That would enable an athlete to hold form longer, using better technique, and being just that much more efficient than their competition. Or at the very least they would be able to practice their respective skills longer by holding better form over time. If you have the time breathing exercises are a huge plus for performance. The gym should complement your sport, activity, and life as should any endeavor.
Good post. It's very difficult to find an elite athlete in any sport that doesn't strength train. Tiger woods reportedly benches 300+. Usain Bolt? you should see him strength train...total animal. I remember getting guys on the North shore in the mid 70's to train with me. Most were still just sitting around smoking joints and cruising all summer. I think after that there was a lot more awareness overall to start training for surfing. The pro's started picking up on it, the weights, sand running, etc. We kinda went through a period where nobody was training and once it got competitive things started changing back to a training oriented situation and guys started taking their fitness more seriously.
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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2016, 01:16:02 AM »
"Extremely soft and supple - only then, extremely hard and strong"
The problem is the mentality not the nature of the physical activity they choose.



^^^ When one lets go of winning they become free.  Interestingly tai chi and yoga also benefit SUP to a huge degree.  We paddle for fun and to improve our balance.   ;)

Exactly - and there's nothing better on the planet than ultimate freedom. I guess that's why I don't feel the need to compete. Even though I've been told that nobody in the UK could keep up with me over longer distances!  ;) ::)
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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2016, 01:19:57 AM »
Swimming is great however has more carryover to prone surfing as far a benefiting the actual performance of the sport. It's a very necessary activity for anyone involved in watersports, however strength training is what can really benefit your SUP paddling performance from a strength perspective. I think most of the top paddlers spend gym time. It comes down to the correct program in the gym. You NEED leg strength and low back strength and core strength and these are things that are best improved with strength training. You don't need to use huge amounts of weight as that would not carry over well into SUP.

Hmmm - nothing gives you better understanding of water dynamics. Simply nothing. The benefits are not just about muscles, muscle groups, strength etc et ..

Strengths on water is not a 'strong muscle'  8) 8)

In fact weakness would be a better description of serious muscle power when on water.

Water sports coaching is my job and at the moment I'm training possibly the 'strongest' man on earth. We are training all of his 'strength' out of him.  :D
When paddling a SUP you aren't IN the water, you're OUT of the water and your body is the engine that is driving the paddle. A stronger engine=more powerful paddling. The bottom line is to engage in as many activities as possible that will improve your conditioning and power. Balance is always the key....

Sorry but the hydra don't work like that.. If you add more strength, the water is  harder. The more you try and push the water the more it'll push you back. Brute force ain't good.

Yes - cross training, but true strength is not in your muscles.

I'm actually training possibly the strongest man on earth right now. All his power just make more turbulence which slows him down.
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drfierce

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2016, 07:37:20 AM »
I'm relatively new to SUP but I'm a suburban dad who tries to stay in shape so I'm always looking for the most efficient whole body exercises I can find given the fact that my free time is pretty limited. There are two things which I have found which I think have helped me adapt pretty quickly to SUP.

1. Kettlebell exercises. I've followed Pavel Tsatsouline's "Kettlebell Simple and Sinister" work out, which is basically two exercises (swings plus Turkish get ups) preceded by two warm ups. Great total body work out you can do in 30 minutes a day. If you go this route, I HIGHLY recommend getting a trainer certified in Kettlebell (StrongFirst and RKC are what you can look for). I say this because I tweaked my backs a few times in the process of teaching myself.
2. TRX/suspension training is great too given the emphasize on total body movements with a strong core component.

Finally, Suzie Cooney has a book on training for SUP which includes a lot of balance exercises. She has good videos http://www.suzietrainsmaui.com and her book is here https://www.amazon.com/Increase-Your-Stand-Paddling-Performance-ebook/dp/B014Z17EBC/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1475591950&sr=1-1&keywords=suzie+cooney
« Last Edit: October 04, 2016, 07:39:30 AM by drfierce »
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headmount

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2016, 10:23:07 AM »
The question was what types of exercises and reading this thread I saw some people mention opposing muscle groups for balancing.  So since we use triceps should we be doing curls for biceps to balance?  If so any others?  I already swim but interested in saving my joints by balancing at 66.

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2016, 11:07:27 AM »
People jump to the idea that you should strengthen the muscles you use for a sport, which is true, but if you don't want to end up unbalanced and injured, you need to strengthen the opposing ones.  Obviously, strength training is great for that, too.

^^^ So true.  As well strengthening your stabilizers is quite important.  Ever since opposers and stabilizers have been strengthened -> soreness and injury have been eliminated.  Before I would have aches and pains from overuse - but now nada.  Plus can paddle for longer and faster -> so a double bonus.   :)

headmount - the down motion at the catch works the shoulders so to balance I do heavy dumbbell arm raises etc - at all angles.  A very similar down motion for shoulders are muscle-ups - and these add a huge power increase to my catch.  The other exercises I noted are incredibly effective as well to add power.  And if you do tricep extensions then do tricep contractions and work any affected stabilizers.  Do a multitude of complimentary exercises to balance all your muscle groups.

I am in far better shape now vs my 20s or any other time in my life.  I could bench more back then but I can squat and deadlift more today by far.  This is due to altering my lifestyle 2-1/2 years ago because I had too much excess fat everywhere.  It is basically all gone now and muscle mass has been added.  According to DEXA - my BF% is now well within the top 5th percentile for my age.  My personalized diet and exercise protocols were key to the changes - using blood and strength tests as baselines.  I have done a huge amount of research to get to this point - and it is a constant work in progress.

At 66 - I think all weight bearing exercises would be useful to increase muscle mass.  Sarcopenia is a big problem for everyone in middle age.  Though a bit younger than you - I increased my muscle mass 1kg and dropped fat mass 1kg according to my latest DEXA scan.
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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2016, 12:42:47 AM »
People jump to the idea that you should strengthen the muscles you use for a sport, which is true, but if you don't want to end up unbalanced and injured, you need to strengthen the opposing ones.  Obviously, strength training is great for that, too.

^^^ So true.  As well strengthening your stabilizers is quite important.  Ever since opposers and stabilizers have been strengthened -> soreness and injury have been eliminated.  Before I would have aches and pains from overuse - but now nada.  Plus can paddle for longer and faster -> so a double bonus.   :)

headmount - the down motion at the catch works the shoulders so to balance I do heavy dumbbell arm raises etc - at all angles.  A very similar down motion for shoulders are muscle-ups - and these add a huge power increase to my catch.  The other exercises I noted are incredibly effective as well to add power.  And if you do tricep extensions then do tricep contractions and work any affected stabilizers.  Do a multitude of complimentary exercises to balance all your muscle groups.

I am in far better shape now vs my 20s or any other time in my life.  I could bench more back then but I can squat and deadlift more today by far.  This is due to altering my lifestyle 2-1/2 years ago because I had too much excess fat everywhere.  It is basically all gone now and muscle mass has been added.  According to DEXA - my BF% is now well within the top 5th percentile for my age.  My personalized diet and exercise protocols were key to the changes - using blood and strength tests as baselines.  I have done a huge amount of research to get to this point - and it is a constant work in progress.

At 66 - I think all weight bearing exercises would be useful to increase muscle mass.  Sarcopenia is a big problem for everyone in middle age.  Though a bit younger than you - I increased my muscle mass 1kg and dropped fat mass 1kg according to my latest DEXA scan.
Thanks Eagle.  On a mission to get fit.  Been faking it for 12 yrs of paddling and need to step it up.  Any other info sources?

ukgm

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2016, 02:53:56 AM »
Hi, I'm new to paddleboarding and am wondering what type of exercises I can do off the water that would help me become a better paddleboarder. When I'm paddling I find myself getting tired quickly (winded and my arms hurt). Thanks for any suggestions.

I'm coming in late via other sports but I wholly recommend cycling for improving cardiovascular conditioning and leg strength for SUP. The forces in paddling are actually quite low so I personally believe paddlers who are relatively young would be better served just paddling more rather than hitting the gym. However, once you get past 40, you need to be aware of the slow decline of muscle mass so plenty of literature out there advocates increasing weight bearing exercise as you age.

To be honest though, the biggest problem I see in SUP isn't what training they should or shouldn't do but rather a complete lack of training structure or an understanding of the fundamentals to help them improve. Plus, many just aren't paddling long enough or with high enough quality. If you're racing for 90 minutes and your training paddles are about the same length, you're underdeveloped and underprepared in my view. There  is too much reliance in high intensity intervals at the moment when in reality the 80/20 rule still holds up very well.

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2016, 04:54:30 AM »
Many thanks to everyone who has responded. Y'all have provided a wealth of very helpful information! Thank you so much! It's great that everyone is willing to share their tips, tricks, ideas, etc!
Heres a basic start for beginners/intermediates, if you don't want to go to quite the lengths that are being mentioned here:

http://www.outsideonline.com/1918216/dave-kalamas-five-exercises-every-athlete

I find swimming and cycling particularly helpful. But the top SUP athletes come from a range of background disciplines and they all help. I'd avoid the gym unless you know what you are doing. Gyms are dangerous places in terms of likelihood of injury IMO, and being fit is often as much about avoiding injury and overtraining as it is anything else.

If your arms are getting tired, then you might want to take a good look at your technique. You don't really need to be doing much with your arms. If you are paddling correctly, most people find they get tired in their legs, core, and back before their arms. Annabel Anderson doesn't have arms that are nearly as powerful as many of the men (even relative to bodyweight) but she beats all but the very most elite men. She derives a huge amount of power from her legs and core, and very good technique.

The Mistral rider Seychelle, who has managed some amazing wins and other feats on a SUP has a background I think in Yoga. Flexibility and range of movement is also a way to get "stronger" in the sense of generating more power at the blade, and avoiding tiredness and injury. It's an aspect of fitness that is often overlooked by the kind of typical older guys (like me) who post most on these forums - principally because we aren't very good at it haha!

Basically, do as much as you can of the biggest variety of activities you can, and work very carefully on your paddle technique. It all helps. There is even a place for just lying on a sofa relaxing, or sleeping in anyone's fitness regimen! Just make sure it is matched by an increase in physical activity...

ukgm

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2016, 05:04:56 AM »
Many thanks to everyone who has responded. Y'all have provided a wealth of very helpful information! Thank you so much! It's great that everyone is willing to share their tips, tricks, ideas, etc!

The Mistral rider Seychelle, who has managed some amazing wins and other feats on a SUP has a background I think in Yoga. Flexibility and range of movement is also a way to get "stronger" in the sense of generating more power at the blade, and avoiding tiredness and injury. It's an aspect of fitness that is often overlooked by the kind of typical older guys (like me) who post most on these forums - principally because we aren't very good at it haha!


It's just functional strength really. If you look at the top men's paddlers, most aren't that big and there seems to be a move towards a greater emphasis on power to weight rather than just raw strength and power.

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2016, 05:35:55 AM »
Beyond the first year or so of SUP racing, the top paddlers have been getting smaller. Chuck Patterson won the first BOP I think, and he's a powerful dude. But the riders rapidly got smaller and younger after that. Then, once the Unlimited class disappeared, and the races took the formats that they have, the writing was in the wall for the beefcake paddler. Now, being the size of Larry Cain is about as big as you can go if you want to win at the elite level. Michael Booth etc are hugely powerful for their weight and size, but this is a sport now that tends to favours Kai Lenny sized people rather than Chuck Patterson ones. It needn't stay like that however (or at least, not to the same degree) - but we'd need to see the return of the UL class to give the heavier rider a chance.

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2016, 07:00:49 AM »
Beyond the first year or so of SUP racing, the top paddlers have been getting smaller. Chuck Patterson won the first BOP I think, and he's a powerful dude. But the riders rapidly got smaller and younger after that. Then, once the Unlimited class disappeared, and the races took the formats that they have, the writing was in the wall for the beefcake paddler. Now, being the size of Larry Cain is about as big as you can go if you want to win at the elite level. Michael Booth etc are hugely powerful for their weight and size, but this is a sport now that tends to favours Kai Lenny sized people rather than Chuck Patterson ones. It needn't stay like that however (or at least, not to the same degree) - but we'd need to see the return of the UL class to give the heavier rider a chance.
Size is a product of diet. When you weight train properly with the correct exercises and using the correct weight for your goals you'll gain strength and not size if your diet does not put you in a surplus of calories. Strength is derived from neuromuscular adaption. You have guys that are 135 deadlifting ridiculous amounts of weight. For our purposes this type of strength is unnecessary however it illustrates the point of strength doesn't correlate directly to mass. Whatever your training protocol weight training will definitely be an added plus. I doubt there's a serious professional athlete that doesn't strength train. As you get older this is a must.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 07:02:49 AM by supsurf-tw »
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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2016, 09:36:50 AM »
Size isn't just a product of diet. Laird isn't bigger than Kai because he eats more, he eats more because he's bigger. Size is principally about genetics, absconds secondarily about diet.

I don't disagree with you about strength training for elite athletes. But for your average paddler who just wants to do it recreationally or maybe a couple of races, and has limited time, I suspect that working on cardio, fłexibility and technique will yield better results than strength training. If all you can do is spare 1 hour a week when you aren't paddling, then I reckon getting on your mtb or in the pool is less likely to cause you injury and will have additional health benefits above strength training, especially if you are under 50.

But the rules are different for serious athletes who are already working from a good basic level of fitness and spend many hours a week exercising.

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2016, 11:08:21 AM »
headmount - the better ones are the double blind clinical studies that have no vested interests funding them.  Boring and tedious - but often filled with nice little gold nuggets.  As well YT has many excellent general information videos.  I have compiled around 800 -1000 PDFs and links for all topics related to health and fitness.  So pretty much everything including obesity and why it is so difficult to keep fat off.  Maybe one day will get around to distilling it.   :)

http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/committee/421/SOCI/Reports/2016-02-25_Revised_report_Obesity_in_Canada_e.pdf
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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2016, 11:31:38 AM »
Size isn't just a product of diet. Laird isn't bigger than Kai because he eats more, he eats more because he's bigger. Size is principally about genetics, absconds secondarily about diet.
 Correct. However given the same person, that persons size is determined by the amount of calories in relation to his intake and what is being burned

I don't disagree with you about strength training for elite athletes. You don't need to be an elite athlete to benefit from weight training

 But for your average paddler who just wants to do it recreationally or maybe a couple of races, and has limited time, I suspect that working on cardio, fłexibility and technique will yield better results than strength training. If all you can do is spare 1 hour a week when you aren't paddling, then I reckon getting on your mtb or in the pool is less likely to cause you injury and will have additional health benefits above strength training, especially if you are under 50.

It comes down to a balanced program to fit a lifestyle and independent needs.

But the rules are different for serious athletes who are already working from a good basic level of fitness and spend many hours a week exercising.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2016, 11:52:36 AM by supsurf-tw »
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