Author Topic: Types of exercises that benefit SUP  (Read 16467 times)

UKRiverSurfers

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #15 on: July 22, 2016, 11:52:10 PM »
Swimming is great however has more carryover to prone surfing as far a benefiting the actual performance of the sport. It's a very necessary activity for anyone involved in watersports, however strength training is what can really benefit your SUP paddling performance from a strength perspective. I think most of the top paddlers spend gym time. It comes down to the correct program in the gym. You NEED leg strength and low back strength and core strength and these are things that are best improved with strength training. You don't need to use huge amounts of weight as that would not carry over well into SUP.

Hmmm - nothing gives you better understanding of water dynamics. Simply nothing. The benefits are not just about muscles, muscle groups, strength etc et ..

Strengths on water is not a 'strong muscle'  8) 8)

In fact weakness would be a better description of serious muscle power when on water.

Water sports coaching is my job and at the moment I'm training possibly the 'strongest' man on earth. We are training all of his 'strength' out of him.  :D
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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2016, 11:56:48 PM »
Most of my work is convincing people to ditch the 'gym workout'...

I see the damage it does on a daily basis.. Physical and emotional..

I don't know a single 'gym bunny' who is happy. Most of them feel inferior in themselves and whatever sports they are 'trying to beat'  ::)

"Extremely soft and supple - only then, extremely hard and strong"

A Buddhist saying  ;D
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Area 10

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2016, 01:27:45 AM »
Most of my work is convincing people to ditch the 'gym workout'...

I see the damage it does on a daily basis.. Physical and emotional..

I don't know a single 'gym bunny' who is happy. Most of them feel inferior in themselves and whatever sports they are 'trying to beat'  ::)

"Extremely soft and supple - only then, extremely hard and strong"

A Buddhist saying  ;D
The trouble is that if you give a competitive person a choice between being happy and being top of the podium, they'd choose the podium. The problem is the mentality not the nature of the physical activity they choose. Gyms are the symptom not the cause.

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2016, 05:32:24 AM »
"Extremely soft and supple - only then, extremely hard and strong"
The problem is the mentality not the nature of the physical activity they choose.

^^^ When one lets go of winning they become free.  Interestingly tai chi and yoga also benefit SUP to a huge degree.  We paddle for fun and to improve our balance.   ;)

Fast is FUN!   8)
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supsurf-tw

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2016, 09:47:06 AM »
Swimming is great however has more carryover to prone surfing as far a benefiting the actual performance of the sport. It's a very necessary activity for anyone involved in watersports, however strength training is what can really benefit your SUP paddling performance from a strength perspective. I think most of the top paddlers spend gym time. It comes down to the correct program in the gym. You NEED leg strength and low back strength and core strength and these are things that are best improved with strength training. You don't need to use huge amounts of weight as that would not carry over well into SUP.

Hmmm - nothing gives you better understanding of water dynamics. Simply nothing. The benefits are not just about muscles, muscle groups, strength etc et ..

Strengths on water is not a 'strong muscle'  8) 8)

In fact weakness would be a better description of serious muscle power when on water.

Water sports coaching is my job and at the moment I'm training possibly the 'strongest' man on earth. We are training all of his 'strength' out of him.  :D
When paddling a SUP you aren't IN the water, you're OUT of the water and your body is the engine that is driving the paddle. A stronger engine=more powerful paddling. The bottom line is to engage in as many activities as possible that will improve your conditioning and power. Balance is always the key....
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 10:23:35 AM by supsurf-tw »
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8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
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Eagle

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2016, 12:15:22 PM »
You NEED leg strength and low back strength and core strength and these are things that are best improved with strength training. You don't need to use huge amounts of weight as that would not carry over well into SUP.
In fact weakness would be a better description of serious muscle power when on water.  Water sports coaching is my job and at the moment I'm training possibly the 'strongest' man on earth. We are training all of his 'strength' out of him.  :D
A stronger engine=more powerful paddling. The bottom line is to engage in as many activities as possible that will improve your conditioning and power. Balance is always the key....

Yes can see both sides.  Too much bulk and muscle mass can be a con.  But you do need a strong engine to paddle with power.  So a variety of activities and exercises will benefit SUP.  And balance in everything is always key.   :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
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pdxmike

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2016, 12:52:47 PM »
Swimming is great however has more carryover to prone surfing as far a benefiting the actual performance of the sport. It's a very necessary activity for anyone involved in watersports, however strength training is what can really benefit your SUP paddling performance from a strength perspective. I think most of the top paddlers spend gym time. It comes down to the correct program in the gym. You NEED leg strength and low back strength and core strength and these are things that are best improved with strength training. You don't need to use huge amounts of weight as that would not carry over well into SUP.

Hmmm - nothing gives you better understanding of water dynamics. Simply nothing. The benefits are not just about muscles, muscle groups, strength etc et ..

Strengths on water is not a 'strong muscle'  8) 8)

In fact weakness would be a better description of serious muscle power when on water.

Water sports coaching is my job and at the moment I'm training possibly the 'strongest' man on earth. We are training all of his 'strength' out of him.  :D
My interpretation of this, based on swimming with a lot of good swimmers, plus a lot of very fit triathletes who wanted to improve their swimming:

Swimming teaches you that "feel for the water" is the key to going fast.  In my workout groups, strength and swimming speed aren't closely related.  In fact, the triathletes are mostly younger, stronger and fitter than everyone, but the slowest swimmers.  They don't improve swimming until they learn that pulling and kicking stronger and harder and faster than everyone else impedes them.  You have to slow down, let your hands and arms almost float into the catch position, then gradually apply power so you don't slice your hands and arms through the water.  It's directly related to paddling, and as you learn it in swimming, you'll improve your paddling.

You also learn that with stroke length and turnover, longer and faster is only true to a point. After that point, they slow you down.  And timing of all the parts of the stroke, and how much to glide before the next stroke, are all key.  So are entry, power phase, release, recovery...

Paddling and swimming are so similar in these things that I used to send technique articles by people like Dave Kalama to my swim coaches, who loved seeing swimming principles expressed through paddlers' eyes talking about paddling.

Women triathletes also often seemed to learn how to swim better faster than the guys, probably because they couldn't rely on brute strength to go faster.

So it's not that strength training is bad--and in fact "dryland" training is part of swim training--but like UK says, the benefit of swimming is that it teaches you so much that's directly applicable to paddling while it's also conditioning you.   It's true that you're on a board paddling but in the water swimming, but the real comparison is that while you're standing on the board, you're putting your paddle blade into the water, catching water and pulling yourself forward.  Even that's a weird concept for most paddlers--that you're not pulling your paddle through the water--but when you swim, you feel that concept with your whole body of grabbing water and pulling your body forward, vs. windmilling your arms through the water.  It's like swimming allows you to see paddling through the eyes of the paddle.


It's also great for teaching you that you can gain more from improving technique than you can from improving conditioning.  Or at the very least, that spending time paddling to improve conditioning when your technique is flawed means that you're ingraining bad habits into your muscle memory, maybe even to the point the extra conditioning wasn't worth it.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 01:14:34 PM by pdxmike »

Eagle

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2016, 09:29:02 AM »
Yes definitely can see young fit strong triathletes being the slowest swimmers.  You see that in races all the time.  Sometimes they catch up on the bike or run - sometimes they don't.  On a SUP over pulling is very easy to do - and most noticeable when using an undersized blade with weak catch and hold.  Timing and proper technique are key to get the most out of each pull.  Can also appreciate that "swimming allows you to see paddling through the eyes of the paddle".

It seems all one has to do is compare their board speed to others to ascertain whether their technique needs changing.  Enter a SUP race - or race a buddy head to head.  This will immediately elucidate flaws.  Whether it be your technique or strength or weight or balance etc.  Even a simple quick GPX sprint is enough.  Just review what your track looks like and analyze your speed profile.

Whether you max out at 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 mph -> gives you a ton of data to play with.  Technique is huge for us because we are light weight riders that have a marathon runner physique.  We do not have body builder muscle mass for our height.  DEXA scan data does not lie.  It tells you exactly how much BF and how much lean mass you have compared to the rest of the population.  So that we know with relative certainty. 

Nonetheless excellent info about swimming pdx.  Appreciate your insight.   :)
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supsurf-tw

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2016, 05:18:01 PM »
Yes definitely can see young fit strong triathletes being the slowest swimmers.  You see that in races all the time.  Sometimes they catch up on the bike or run - sometimes they don't.  On a SUP over pulling is very easy to do - and most noticeable when using an undersized blade with weak catch and hold.  Timing and proper technique are key to get the most out of each pull.  Can also appreciate that "swimming allows you to see paddling through the eyes of the paddle".

It seems all one has to do is compare their board speed to others to ascertain whether their technique needs changing.  Enter a SUP race - or race a buddy head to head.  This will immediately elucidate flaws.  Whether it be your technique or strength or weight or balance etc.  Even a simple quick GPX sprint is enough.  Just review what your track looks like and analyze your speed profile.

Whether you max out at 5 or 6 or 7 or 8 mph -> gives you a ton of data to play with.  Technique is huge for us because we are light weight riders that have a marathon runner physique.  We do not have body builder muscle mass for our height.  DEXA scan data does not lie.  It tells you exactly how much BF and how much lean mass you have compared to the rest of the population.  So that we know with relative certainty. 

Nonetheless excellent info about swimming pdx.  Appreciate your insight.   :)
Understand that size is more a result of diet than actual training programs. You have guys at 135 that are amazingly strong. It's mostly about CNS (central nervous system) adaption to load. Strength training+conditioning+Sup= you win. Ask Danny Ching..... I hear he's pretty good
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8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
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Eagle

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2016, 05:34:50 PM »
Understand that size is more a result of diet than actual training programs. You have guys at 135 that are amazingly strong. It's mostly about CNS (central nervous system) adaption to load. Strength training+conditioning+Sup= you win. Ask Danny Ching..... I hear he's pretty good

Very insightful.  ;)  ;D

But diet is key as well.  We completely changed our diet 2-1/2 years ago and that has been a huge part of fat loss and muscle growth.  Really is amazing what can occur in middle age without PEDs or supplements or anything.  Just nutritious whole foods consumed in the right portions at the right time.  Anyone can do it really but application of knowledge and a burning desire are key.   :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
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supsurf-tw

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2016, 06:36:00 PM »
Understand that size is more a result of diet than actual training programs. You have guys at 135 that are amazingly strong. It's mostly about CNS (central nervous system) adaption to load. Strength training+conditioning+Sup= you win. Ask Danny Ching..... I hear he's pretty good

Very insightful.  ;)  ;D

But diet is key as well.  We completely changed our diet 2-1/2 years ago and that has been a huge part of fat loss and muscle growth.  Really is amazing what can occur in middle age without PEDs or supplements or anything.  Just nutritious whole foods consumed in the right portions at the right time.  Anyone can do it really but application of knowledge and a burning desire are key.   :)
Yes diet is always a huge factor. Size being dictated by calorie consumption.
Boards:

 
8-10 x 31 Egg
8-11 X 32 Double wing Fangtail Tom Whitaker
8-6 X 30 1\2  Inbetweener Tom Whitaker
8-4 x 30 Hyper quad Tom Whitaker (wife's now)
8-4 X 31 1\4.  Round (wide) Diamond Tail Quad Tom Whitaker
 9-4 X 30 1\2. Swallow Stinger Quad Tom Whitaker (ex wifes now)
10-0 Brusurf for teach

Miss Adventure

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2016, 11:36:59 AM »
Paddle boarding is such a great workout.  The cardio will come if you keep with it.  At first I found that my arm were getting overly tired as well.  Like me, you may have been using to much arms in the stroke and not enough core.  When done with better technique there is a lot less requirement on the arms.  As with any sport of course a decent baseline of fitness will need to be built up.  There are several great videos explaining stroke. 

I would focus on some core strengthening.  Any solid workout structure will help.  For me it would be hard to say specific exercises because paddling uses so much of the body.  Back, shoulders, arms, legs.  Not very helpful I know.

I say this because paddling was a gateway for me.  I lost 75 lbs. paddling. That motivated me to where I am now, lifting 3 days a week and cardio the other.  I am turning 40 in a few months and I will be in the best shape of my life.  I owe a lot of it to discovering paddling.

Great job losing 75 pounds! Keep up the great work and happy 40th! Thanks for the info.

Miss Adventure

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2016, 11:42:39 AM »
Swim, Swim and swim.....
It's funny, with the original question, my mind went straight to conditioning, and so did everyone else's, plus that's probably what the question was about.  And if it is, then swimming is a great complement to paddling.

But if you just go to the most basic level of what exercise benefits paddlers, of course it's swimming.  You'll be much safer, more confident, able to go out in more varied conditions...It's the forgotten component of paddling.  Every paddler should be a competent open water (not just pool) swimmer.

Plus (depending on what stroke you're doing) it works the same muscles you need for paddling, but also the opposing ones.   People jump to the idea that you should strengthen the muscles you use for a sport, which is true, but if you don't want to end up unbalanced and injured, you need to strengthen the opposing ones.  Obviously, strength training is great for that, too.

Thanks so much! Excellent points!

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2016, 11:48:49 AM »
Many thanks to everyone who has responded. Y'all have provided a wealth of very helpful information! Thank you so much! It's great that everyone is willing to share their tips, tricks, ideas, etc!

natas585

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Re: Types of exercises that benefit SUP
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2016, 01:13:23 PM »
Any activity that makes you pay more attention to how you move is going to be a good one. What I mean by strength training is just that-strength training. Not bodybuilding, power lifting, or olympic lifting. Although those movements can be involved, they are not the goal. Your goal isn't to get as big as a house only to become stronger and more efficient with the body type you have and or want. In my 3 plus decades of coaching athletes in strength and conditioning I have yet to hear any podium finisher say " Gee, I would have done better if only I was a little weaker." I would recommend using strength training, once again not circuit training or body building, to get the movement pattern muscles stronger and more efficient. That would enable an athlete to hold form longer, using better technique, and being just that much more efficient than their competition. Or at the very least they would be able to practice their respective skills longer by holding better form over time. If you have the time breathing exercises are a huge plus for performance. The gym should complement your sport, activity, and life as should any endeavor.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 01:15:00 PM by natas585 »
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