Author Topic: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.  (Read 7851 times)

TallDude

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2016, 09:00:50 AM »
Okay, so I took a look at the New Naish Maliko. I watch a few videos because you sparked my curiosity:) It has DW rocker in the nose. The bulbous noses are rounded side to side which acts as additional nose rocker even though the center line has less. On the Maliko, even the center line looks to have a good amount of rocker.
It may be overhead to you, but it's waist high to me.

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SUPflorida

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #31 on: September 19, 2016, 10:21:56 AM »
It will be interesting to see how this rocker plays out. My 14 has a lot more nose rocker, but when the close period chop gets a foot high or more it pierces through it rather than ridding over it anyway.

I'm banking on 3-1/4" of tail rocker and a a narrow (read easily immersed) tail outline to accomplish my objective. Very easy to go overboard with nose rocker. When taken too far it pushes water ahead of the board and offers a larger profile to the wind, neither of which I want.

Remember my statement of purpose, Inter-island downwind runs are not on my agenda nor is it a design consideration for this build.
This board will hopefully allow greater speed and ease of recreational distance paddling. For the most part confined to the Intra-coastal waterways of East Coast of Florida where paddling up wind/cross wind are equal to, or of greater importance than downwind. Yes it's usually choppy...not infrequent....ridiculously so. But it is not open ocean Pacific swells by any stretch of the imagination. So why design/build with that in mind?

Here is photo of deck before seal an laminate:
Photo of bottom after laminating:

The theory is in flatter water the front half of the board will present a very flat/straight rocker line. As the water gets rougher, moving back will take advantage of the tail rocker and narrow tail outline.

The front of the board gives a long gradual transition instead of plowing (excessive nose scoop). What it can't go over, it will go through with (hopefully) minimal resistance. I am banking on the 16'-2-1/2" length to allow the nose to be cantilevered up without causing the forward motion to stall as it might be the case on a shorter board.

Although not apparent in the photos, thickness has been kept rather thin at 5-3/4" to keep cross wind effect to a minimum. Something our friends across the pond have learned, confirmed by my own experience.

So at this point it's well reasoned conjecture on my part...the water will be the crucible where it is proven or dismissed. Interested in what zoners have experienced first hand... as there is often a dissconect between theory and reality.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 10:46:58 AM by SUPflorida »

TallDude

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #32 on: September 19, 2016, 11:39:51 AM »
From the conditions you describe it should be very fast. Nothing wrong with water over the bow as long as you are maintaining speed. Unlimiteds punch through the chop better than any 14'. You'll find it a little tippy with less rocker but the speed will make up for it:) Next thing you'll be thinking, "what if I made an 18' or 19' board". More speed. The extra tail rocker will just reduce your overall waterline in flat water. Narrower tails are a whole discussion in themselves. My 18'r has about 2 1/2" of rocker in the nose and 1 3/4" in the tail. The nose is so sharp it punches through chop effortlessly. I could probably gone less rocker and not noticed much difference.
It may be overhead to you, but it's waist high to me.

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SUPflorida

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #33 on: September 19, 2016, 12:12:26 PM »
Thanks for your insight TallDude. I'm hoping that the decent tail rocker and flatter forward rocker will allow me to position myself a little farther back without dragging the tail.
I remember you talking about the flatter rocker taking away some stability and it was probably the tipping point in my going 25-1/2 wide.Thats the only thing I' have reservation about....that I may have made it a touch too wide...my 14' is 26" wide and super stable for me....so I went back and forth with making it 24" instead of 25-1/2" but I thought the extra 1-1/2" could be helpful when conditions go to crap...which is very likely on a 6 to 9 hr paddle in Florida. The expression is if you don't like the weather just wait 5 min and it will change.

Isn't your unlimited a pin tail? Haven't seen a picture of it for awhile...

As to going longer...at my size I'm wonder if it would be diminishing returns...i'll have a better idea when I get this one on the water.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 12:52:52 PM by SUPflorida »

TallDude

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #34 on: September 19, 2016, 01:08:42 PM »
Width can be misconstrued as a general figure that defines the stability of a board. My unlimited goes from a sharp point to a point that is 25" under foot and back to a 4" or so wide tail. You can't pivot turn it. It doesn't want to turn period. In no wind I can paddle it on one side around 20 times without going off course. Other shorter race boards that are 23 or 24" wide but have wide square tails are going to be very stable compared to my 18'r. Add a flat bottom, more rocker and they become very stable. My 14' x 28" get wide pretty quick in the nose and carries the 28" width for at least 2 and a half feet.The tail is wide with probably 3" of rocker. It feels like a touring barge compared to my 3" narrower unlimited. It races like one too. But hey, it surfs pretty good.
A lot of the earlier stand-up racers were very fast on unlimiteds. And they were not big guys. It's a must to be competitive as a big guy.
It may be overhead to you, but it's waist high to me.

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supuk

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #35 on: September 19, 2016, 01:47:41 PM »
Thanks for your insight TallDude. I'm hoping that the decent tail rocker and flatter forward rocker will allow me to position myself a little farther back without dragging the tail.
I remember you talking about the flatter rocker taking away some stability and it was probably the tipping point in my going 25-1/2 wide.Thats the only thing I' have reservation about....that I may have made it a touch too wide...my 14' is 26" wide and super stable for me....so I went back and forth with making it 24" instead of 25-1/2" but I thought the extra 1-1/2" could be helpful when conditions go to crap...which is very likely on a 6 to 9 hr paddle in Florida. The expression is if you don't like the weather just wait 5 min and it will change.

Isn't your unlimited a pin tail? Haven't seen a picture of it for awhile...

As to going longer...at my size I'm wonder if it would be diminishing returns...i'll have a better idea when I get this one on the water.


I got to say my dw 16 is crazy stable at 24.5 and will go to at least 23 next time however it is low volume and has rocker.

SUPflorida

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2016, 05:28:34 PM »
Supuk any tips on how you do your carbon handles? Looks like you used a fishing net float for a mold plug...I have an extra FCS handle, but those aren't so hot, even  for a small wave board. They get narrower in the center biting into my knuckles. Sad they have the manufacturing ability....distribution channels and that's the best design they can come up with.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2016, 05:38:12 PM by SUPflorida »

TallDude

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2016, 11:27:37 PM »
Thanks for your insight TallDude. I'm hoping that the decent tail rocker and flatter forward rocker will allow me to position myself a little farther back without dragging the tail.
I remember you talking about the flatter rocker taking away some stability and it was probably the tipping point in my going 25-1/2 wide.Thats the only thing I' have reservation about....that I may have made it a touch too wide...my 14' is 26" wide and super stable for me....so I went back and forth with making it 24" instead of 25-1/2" but I thought the extra 1-1/2" could be helpful when conditions go to crap...which is very likely on a 6 to 9 hr paddle in Florida. The expression is if you don't like the weather just wait 5 min and it will change.

Isn't your unlimited a pin tail? Haven't seen a picture of it for awhile...

As to going longer...at my size I'm wonder if it would be diminishing returns...i'll have a better idea when I get this one on the water.
Here is my current 18' unlimited and an old 16' Infinity I race back in 2009. It had a front steering ventral fin. Notice the strap handle on my 18' board. Just two leash plugs and a nylon flat strap between. It's worked great for a few years now.
It may be overhead to you, but it's waist high to me.

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supuk

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2016, 11:29:52 PM »
Supuk any tips on how you do your carbon handles? Looks like you used a fishing net float for a mold plug...I have an extra FCS handle, but those aren't so hot, even  for a small wave board. They get narrower in the center biting into my knuckles. Sad they have the manufacturing ability....distribution channels and that's the best design they can come up with.

I made a wood plug that I lay up over and then vac bag.

SUPflorida

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2016, 04:41:20 AM »
Ah...I'm thinking your plug was probably CNC cut too....I love to have that capability... :P

supuk

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2016, 04:46:06 AM »
first one wasn't but the second one was although it tock a lot of hand finishing as I dint get a very good finish.

SUPflorida

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2016, 09:36:14 AM »
Need a quick answer...cleaning up last nights fin box install...and want to set the twin leash plugs...Question?....Leash plug location....standard tail location ok? Or does a 16+ board work better with a different primary location?  Wondering what kind ( if any issues) are created if the leash attachment point is anywhere other than within 8" of the tail...supuk...what did you set yours at ?, looks like maybe 24" up from tail. Are you Happy with your placement? and if not what would you do different? Talldude, PonoBill what's your preference on leash locations for unlimited's?

Seems like the SIC boards have it very close to tail.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2016, 09:56:02 AM by SUPflorida »

supuk

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2016, 10:54:56 AM »
16" for me I gave it some thought, didn't want to be standing on it. Have not had any problems were it is

SUPflorida

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2016, 11:58:30 AM »
Thanks...

SUPflorida

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Re: 25-1/2" X 16' unlimited "all water" build underway.
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2016, 05:40:49 PM »
Picture of deck fill coat, ended up not using the Blue Planet handle not that it was bad....just preferred the carbon handle I made up myself.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2016, 05:46:28 PM by SUPflorida »

 


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