Dumb Question for the Dumb Question guys. Downwind boards more stable with wind?

[SUPcheat]

Since I have never been on one, but have thought about renting one for a day just for yucks:  are downwind boards a LOT more stable aka easier to balance when you have wind at your back than on still water, less stable, or does it just depend on conditions?

[covesurfer]

I don't think it's a dumb question. My opinion, based on my own experiences, which include taking beginners on their first runs in the Gorge, is emphatically NO. The board is not going to gain stability in downwind paddling. The opposite would be the case. I think that it is true that boards do gain stability as they go faster, but in downwinding, especially at first, you are not going to be generating continuous speed that would make a narrower board feel more stable.

What typically looks like small, organized whitecaps from shore turns out to be choppy, rough water, typically with some significant rolling going on. It is usually much more chaotic than it appears from shore. So, to get your sea legs, develop some confidence and skill, a more stable board is a much more productive route.

It is probably best if you can work with a shop that has downwinder knowledge. They should have a progression of boards that you could rent/demo as you learn. When it's blowing, you will have enough challenge with just getting comfortable in the conditions. Worrying about staying upright because you want a faster board is unproductive. You can work on going faster once you get your balance and a sense of the water's rhythm in windy conditions.

Downwind boards should feel pretty stable in calm conditions. You should plan to go at least 14' in length to get something that will really glide well. Longer than 14' is faster, not necessarily less stable, but a lot more to deal with, especially in the steering department. Good luck. Once you start gliding, it is addictive. Don't say you weren't warned.

[Badger]

My experience in the small conditions that we have here is that I can't imagine any situation more unstable and challenging as downwinding. It often puts me right on the edge of my ability to stay upright. The enjoyment is the exhilaration of a really long glide and the art of perfecting it, but it definitely takes practice.

So I have to say no. There is no added stability once the board is planing. It's not like surfing a shorter board where the board instantly becomes more stable the moment you are on the wave.

.

[clay]

Hi Carl, I agree with the other posts.  Short answer is no.

The first time I paddled a DW board in the calm waters of the harbor it felt very unstable, like trying to stand up on a hammock.  Very slippery and quite different from a lower volume SUP surf board.  The way I make sense of it is the rails on a DW board are much softer.

This being said my balance and comfort level improved significantly after a dozen or so DW runs.  When it's really blowing I prefer and am faster on a 30" wide board. covewater has a pretty good selection of DW boards.  I  recommend starting on a 30" wide board, they might have an F14 wide?  Or the Angulo guys might be able to get you one.  Maybe take it out to cowells early on a really small day to get the feel.

I have an old angulo shaka your welcome to try, it's a beast but super stable.

[Area 10]

Yep. What they said.

I also have an Angulo Shaka that I lend to beginners. And sometimes still use myself if it's crazy choppy, I'm injured or unwell, or just fancy taking it easy. Great board.

[SUPcheat]

Thanks for the answers, guys.  I think I got it.  More challenge for the ole bod and a different paradigm all around.

Thank you for your kind offer, Clay.  I have a couple of unused prepaid rentals at Covewater that I haven't used yet.  If and when I take one of the boards out, I will probably just use those to start with for same day checkout and return.

[PonoBill]

Funny question. I see this often waiting for the shuttle. People show up to downwind for the first time with a performance board. "We'll be fine, we're surfers".  Well, it's a good start, but it ain't everything. They straggle in after the two hour mark, looking a little spooked, but still hooked. No shame, I spent most of my first downwinder on my knees--and it wasn't just to paddle.

[SUPcheat]

I'm too chicken for something like that, and learn too slowly. I think that I would practice on one for a while in calm conditions and then hire a downwind wet nurse for a couple of runs. 

Maybe next year to Maui and ask Headmount to take me out to do a mild Maliko just to say I did it.

I have never taken surfing lessons, but wouldn't do any downwinding without lessons and a guide.

[stoneaxe]

It's the hardest SUP discipline for me (haven't tried whitewater and likely won't). My balance relies heavily on vision. Being able to anticipate what is going to happen is obviously part of it because the bumps hitting from behind constantly throws my balance off terribly. I NEVER feel comfortable on a downwinder...always have to work hard to maintain balance and still feel like I could fall any second. That said, after surf it's my favorite discipline even though I get very frustrated.

[blueplanetsurf]

What they said, use the most stable and widest downwind board you can find the first time.  The 14' x 30 Bumprider is a great board to learn on and is what we use on coached runs.  It also helps to go out in moderate wind conditions on your first time.

[Eagle]

Since I have never been on one, but have thought about renting one for a day just for yucks:  are downwind boards a LOT more stable aka easier to balance when you have wind at your back than on still water, less stable, or does it just depend on conditions?

For most starting out - DW boards are are NOT a lot more stable aka easier to balance when you have wind at your back than on still water.  They feel less stable - and it does depend on conditions.

Once you get the hang of it - DW boards for me and my wife - become a LOT more stable aka easier to balance when you have wind at your back than on still water.

It does take TOTW - but is generally possible to teach most paddlers how to DW - and certainly how to DB.  I have taught my wife and others just that.  And they love it.

Probably stems from background in teaching others how to sail ski and snowboard.  The progression method and how one teaches is very important to -> "if" one picks something up - and also "how long" it takes someone to pick something up.

What you can do is paddle upwind when there are ripples -> then turn DB.  Get used to than sensation.  That is how I learned to DW.  From that -> just do that same thing in windier and windier conditions.  Before you know it -> you are there SUPcheat!  You do not need to buy or use a DW board.  Just use any board you have.  I learned on our Dominator!

And no it is not a dumb question at all.  We do get that asked all the time around here.  No need to pay for this.  Just try it.   

[PonoBill]

I'm too chicken for something like that, and learn too slowly. I think that I would practice on one for a while in calm conditions and then hire a downwind wet nurse for a couple of runs. 

Maybe next year to Maui and ask Headmount to take me out to do a mild Maliko just to say I did it.

I have never taken surfing lessons, but wouldn't do any downwinding without lessons and a guide.

Good plan. Bill is patient and won't scare the crap out of you, like the loons that took me (Admin and Chan) on my first run. I thought they were actually trying to kill me.

[covesurfer]

Maybe.

HM and PB scared the crap out of me on a Winter Maliko. It wasn't my first run but it was one of my first runs and I thought I was gonna die for sure. Instead, I just ended up moving here so I could practice more.

[HanaSurf]

Most wind I've tried was 20 mph but I swear the more my SIC F14 gets moving the more stable it feels to me. I just started this year but I'll take downwind stability over paddling in chop,slop, and wind coming from the side on my board anyday.

[Off-Shore]

Like Eagle, I have taught a few people to downbreeze and downwind and what I have found is those who SUS (Stand Up Surf) are probably the fastest learners because they can get in surf stance quicker and know the feeling of catching waves.Then come downhill skiers and snowboarders. The skiers have real problems getting into surf stance but know how to stay on the board and ride "downhill". If you are used to being in surf also you don't get scared as easily as those not used to big seas. It really is an amazing discipline of our sport and it's the one I wake up every day and search the local forecast wherever I am for.

So are downwind boards unstable? Not on flat water. Less tippy than a race board and if you go for a SIC F14 at 30" wide or a Bullet at 27.25" you will be surprised at how stable it feels. Out in downwind conditions I'm also of the opinion that they become more stable in groomed corduroy conditions as you ease your way to the tail. But if you are in open ocean conditions with mixed ground and wind swell this is a challenge on any board and it is all about TOTW. Time On The Water. Nothing can prepare you for this except to get off your duff and do...

I'm also of the opinion that you don't need a downwind board to get the feeling. I was just in Scotland and ColdSup hooked me up with one of his buddies for a downbreeze and all he had was a 9-8" Starboard available. Still had loads of fun and a great workout on the lovely Loch Lomond. 11km / 7 miles of stoke.