Author Topic: The differences between surfing with a paddle and surfing without....  (Read 9101 times)

TallDude

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I was thinking about the difference between surfing with a paddle and without. I was prone surfing last week on my new longboard and the first bottom turn reminded me of how different it is.  I become so used to using my paddle on turns that I realized I don't use my arms the same way. When surfing, skateboarding, or snowboarding you swing your arms to load up your stomach and back muscles, so that torque gets applied to the board helping it to turn. With a paddle the whole dynamic is changed. The paddle almost prevents you from swinging your arms. The length of the paddle and which side it's on will further effect your ability to use your arm rotation.

I can always tell a guy who surfs but is new to sup surfing. They take off on a wave (sometimes from a knee paddle position) and then make this uneventful turn holding the paddle in one hand off to the side. If you do that it makes the board feel like it's 10" wider and the size of a boat surfing. I get why some guys like this who try it, give up and say it's boring. Not only is the board bigger, not using the paddle to turn just makes it worse.

Last night I was talking to a friend who's a good surfer but had the same bad experience. His was worse because he fell and got shinned by the board and his friends were watching. I tried to explain the differences and benefits of a paddle, but I don't think I made a sell ::)

With the paddle, you apply pressure against the water. The resistance creates torque in your body that transfers into your board. It also allows you to get the wider more buoyant board on  to a rail front or backside. When I see these guys just holding there paddles out to the side, I want to tell them to use the paddle. I will only if I know them.

Anyway, just something I was thinking about..........
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 03:00:30 PM by TallDude »
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supsurf-tw

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I cringe when I see that......
It's like watching a skier not using their poles. The paddle is part of the dance. It's just a different dance than prone surfing.
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From a different perspective. I've never been on a surfboard. As a whitewater paddler, when paddling difficult and challenging runs, you live and die by your paddle skill. And you have to have absolute faith when the chips are down that you can. What I've come to realize is that never having prone surfed, my paddle skill is a godsend and a minor curse. On the curse side I find that I rely too much on using the paddle when I should be using my body as part of the equation. I always did in WW, but for some reason I haven't translated it to SUS. I'm gonna learn to prone surf. It'll definitely make me a better SUS'er. Thanks TD, nice thread. Gets the wheels turning.

Fog City Rider

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From a different perspective. I've never been on a surfboard. As a whitewater paddler, when paddling difficult and challenging runs, you live and die by your paddle skill. And you have to have absolute faith when the chips are down that you can. What I've come to realize is that never having prone surfed, my paddle skill is a godsend and a minor curse. On the curse side I find that I rely too much on using the paddle when I should be using my body as part of the equation. I always did in WW, but for some reason I haven't translated it to SUS. I'm gonna learn to prone surf. It'll definitely make me a better SUS'er. Thanks TD, nice thread. Gets the wheels turning.

Well said.  I'm about 4 years deep into paddle surfing & feel the same way.  Not using the paddle at all is ineffective, but overusing it makes for equally ugly surfing.  The trick is getting it just right! 

I've GoPro'd a couple times and it's very revealing, I definitely rely too heavily on the paddle for my turns and maintaining speed.  Working on changing that. 
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When I standup paddle surf I try to make the fins and rail shape do most of the work with a bit of body torquing and the occasional shove with the paddle if I cant get the board to turn to where I want to be on the wave.

It would be boring if we all surfed the same way ;D

mik911

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I cringe when I see that......
It's like watching a skier not using their poles. The paddle is part of the dance. It's just a different dance than prone surfing.


Do you use the paddle on a knee-waist high wave?  On a small wave, the board speed is so slow, it seems ineffective to use the paddle on the bottom turn.  I usually don't use the paddle, but execute a bottom turn as if on a longboard.
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Badger

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I cringe when I see that......
It's like watching a skier not using their poles. The paddle is part of the dance. It's just a different dance than prone surfing.


Do you use the paddle on a knee-waist high wave?  On a small wave, the board speed is so slow, it seems ineffective to use the paddle on the bottom turn.  I usually don't use the paddle, but execute a bottom turn as if on a longboard.

I think the point they are making is that it looks silly when people try to surf while holding the paddle with one hand. I cringe when I see that too.

.

« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 03:39:01 AM by Badger »
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TallDude

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I cringe when I see that......
It's like watching a skier not using their poles. The paddle is part of the dance. It's just a different dance than prone surfing.


Do you use the paddle on a knee-waist high wave?  On a small wave, the board speed is so slow, it seems ineffective to use the paddle on the bottom turn.  I usually don't use the paddle, but execute a bottom turn as if on a longboard.

A long board turn basically stalls the board for a moment. Stepping back, slowing the board, pivoting, walking (cross step if you can) forward to pickup speed. Leaning on the paddle on a small or bigger wave allows the longer and especially wider boards to get more on rail and carve. The carve promotes drive and maintains more speed which those big boards will do. Even my 11'-6 Nalu will carve on a bottom turn if you lean on the paddle. If you don't, it feels like a barge. Most surfers new to SUP surfing don't realize the dynamic the paddle adds to the turn. It's just a matter of discovery. Nothing wrong with surfing long board style. Just please hold the paddle in both hands and add it to your long board SUP style.  8)


Just to emphasize my point.  The Man using his paddle to turn a big board on a small wave. Notice the flex in his paddle shaft. He has weight on it. And to further my point, it's not just that he's leaning on the paddle and getting more on rail, it's the torque he's applying to the board to turn it without swinging his arms. 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 09:34:36 AM by TallDude »
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raf

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Most surfers think of the paddle as a crutch or accessory, but in surf, its the whole thing.  I am constantly explaining to surf-centric 1st time customers that where we surf, 95% of the time, you can surf harder, faster, and better on a SUP because even in crap waves, you can surf on rail all the time by leaning on your paddle.  As Talldude said, surfing on rail = drive and speed, and drive and speed = better surfing. 

SUPcheat

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Wow, you guys make me feel guilty.  I typically paddle into the wave, but seldom use the paddle to mark turns etc. I guess in my learning curve, I have been concentrating on using my body to crouch and extend to throw the turns.  Guys with prone backgrounds already know how to do this.

Come to think of it, I do use the paddle at times when on the wave, but it is to re-stabilize.  I'll use if a lot, of course, if I am going back out through white water.

I'll have to pay attention the next time I'm out in something big enough for it to matter.
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Re: The differences between surfing with a paddle and surfing without....
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2016, 10:52:59 AM »
I always hand checked the wave while prone surfing...and, use the paddle in much the same way...it's a tool...
I probably would not be able to do lay back cutbacks these days without it...;-)

FWIW, definitely hurts the eyes to see paddle surfers stab the wave to death...or, for that matter...switch paddle sides for no reason...;-)
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Badger

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Re: The differences between surfing with a paddle and surfing without....
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2016, 04:05:22 AM »
FWIW, definitely hurts the eyes to see paddle surfers stab the wave to death...or, for that matter...switch paddle sides for no reason...;-)

I've watched some guys who keep paddling for the whole length of the wave like they are in a race or something. It's a big waste of energy. The whole point of surfing is to let the wave provide the power.


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TallDude

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Re: The differences between surfing with a paddle and surfing without....
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2016, 08:33:45 AM »
FWIW, definitely hurts the eyes to see paddle surfers stab the wave to death...or, for that matter...switch paddle sides for no reason...;-)

I've watched some guys who keep paddling for the whole length of the wave like they are in a race or something. It's a big waste of energy. The whole point of surfing is to let the wave provide the power.

I was and at times may still be guilty of this. Party because I was new to paddle surfing and partly because I had the wrong board for the break. I first started sup surfing with my 11'6 Nalu. Plenty of glide and speed even in little mushers. I was just trying to figure out what to do with my paddle. A year later I dropped to a 9'4 more pulled in short board shape. I found myself paddling too much in mushy waves. I started surfing a steeper, faster break and magic. No more excessive paddling. I now have different boards for breaks as you would for prone surfing. If you have to paddle that much to make sections, then either your not moving around on the board to generate speed or it's the wrong board for that break.
Sometimes I'll bring a shorter board because Surfline showed it to be big. It turns out to be weak and I'm over paddling because I brought the wrong board.
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RATbeachrider

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Re: The differences between surfing with a paddle and surfing without....
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2016, 07:39:17 PM »
On the King's 9'2 and 8'2.  Holding the paddle in one hand is a huge no no.

ctuna

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Re: The differences between surfing with a paddle and surfing without....
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2016, 02:52:34 PM »
On the opposite side you can tell people that have never surfed still paddling on
a wave when they don't need to. I surfed for a decades before there even was
stand up paddling. I have got to place where I  am using the paddle to stabilize
and recover in situations where I would otherwise fall and to exit the wave but still
am not using it for radical turns or board spins accept accidently. The guy in the following video is what
I am using as something to aspire to as far as using the paddle to turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAoF5avNzm8

 


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