Author Topic: Allstar 2017 changing ?  (Read 40475 times)

coldsup

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2016, 12:32:54 PM »
Any chance that for 2017 they can 1) put the handle at the balance point and 2) elongate the fin box so that it will accept normal fins? Those are my two regular gripes with the 2016.

Ditto to number 1..... I don't know anyone who has one that is perfectly balanced.....with the fin in. Totally amateur of Starborg.

Eagle

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2016, 01:31:22 PM »
I find that on the 23 CS the handle is about 3" too far forward with a very lightweight carbon SIC Weedless 7.0 fin in place.  Maybe with fin and leash it is about 24.5 lbs total.  Even off balance a bit - it is ok to carry for about 100m - then easily throw onto the vehicle.

About the fin box - it fits 7 out of 8 different fins we have.  The other fin could probably be modified - but is too big anyways.  So basically just use the SIC 7.0 all the time now.  With the 23 it is very sensitive to fin size and shape DW.  Smaller is better to minimize broaching angling across and down swells.  Any bigger fin has a tendency to catch.  The 23 with the small SIC fin is a killer proven setup for quick upwind DW runs round these parts.

Out of our boards the Dom is balanced nice with strap.  The SB Touring is spot on.  The Bullet is very close to perfect.  And the M-14 is off the most.  So some get it right and some do not.  This is with fin and leash.
Fast is FUN!   8)
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zachhandler

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2016, 02:44:21 PM »
I have the "carbon hybrid" which is of couse a fiber glass board with a couple strips of carbon down the rails. 29 lbs before leash fin and handle. It is a beast. Fun to paddle. Not fun to carry.

I paddle lakes mostly. By the end of summer the paddies of eurasian milfoil are so thick you can practically cross a lake on snowshoes. Futures Redfish is the best fin by far that I have found.  Noticibly faster through weed than the futures keel which is the next best i have found.  Required about 2 hrs of work to fit, including glassing in an area several inches forward to hold a new pin. Also took about 10cm2 off the tail to get it to go in. I dont think the sic weedless woukd cut it around here by the looks if it. Looks like a good fin though.

Eagle

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2016, 04:09:26 PM »
Yeah - hear you about the weight.  Our SB Touring full carbon is 27.5 w/o fin and our M-14 glass I-beam is 28 w/o fin.  We can definitely feel every single pound on the carry and loading singlehanded.  In the ocean round here we have basically zero weeds or kelp floating - so our options are really good in regards to fin shapes.

Have tried the Futures keel - but in the ocean here - that fin was not deep enough angling down waves.  It is quite amazing the difference between fin profiles shapes and weights.  And once you find what works - you are set.  We have 12 fins total -> 2 Elites 2 SIC 8.3s and 3 SIC 7.0s.  The 7.0 is our most used fin on all our boards by far.  The shape is very versatile forgiving and predictable.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

coldsup

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #19 on: August 20, 2016, 02:06:03 AM »
At the mo I like a bigger fin in my boards ......stability and some tracking makes it easier for me handling chop, side swell etc. But I am 6 ft and 90 kg plus wetties etc.

Eagle

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #20 on: August 20, 2016, 10:10:12 AM »
Yep stability and tracking can be very useful.  But the problem is that the fin can catch angling down waves -> especially on the 23.  So our fin choice is based on that - since we mostly go upwind then DW on that board.  On flat the Gladiator Elite works great for tracking whereas the SIC 7.0 zig zags.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

coldsup

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2016, 04:40:22 AM »
Just coming back to a previous post by Area 10 asking about those concaves on the new Allstar and any effects on cross currents etc.

I had paddled my Allstar recently in similar conditions to yesterday on which I took the m14 out. The M14 made cross currents much easier IMHO.....I didn't feel like the board was tripping or being grabbed at all. Now, I can't say for sure it is the concaves (maybe other design features?) but for me anyway a flat planning hull with rounded sides is easier to handle that stuff. (And much better to DW on full stop.)

Just my take of course - I like the Allstar but it is going to be my training/light chop board from here on.


Eagle

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #22 on: August 22, 2016, 08:07:12 AM »
The big concave at the fin seems to create turbulence and can trip when faced with side forces.  But if the board has enough forward speed the tripping problem is reduced and the board moves into good tracking mode.  So once there is good flow around the fin - the concave becomes beneficial.

Compared to the M-14 -> the 23AS is much more technical to ride as the concave tail does not slip much vs a flat tail.  So your assessment is spot on coldsup.  Every design has a pro and a con aspect - and no one single board will ever be best in all conditions.

For instance the 2017 side chines would just make the 23 just that more tippy as there would be less bite from the hard edges currently in place on the 2016.  Maybe ok for Connor and his peers with alien balance.  But not ok for paddlers with average crappy balance.  Seems like the 2017 AS23 will be as tippy as the 2015 Race 25 that was deep sixed for the average consumer.  The new AS23 will be an extremely small market board for those with exceptional balance.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Turtle

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2016, 09:24:42 PM »
Few videos released about the boards:

https://youtu.be/3QCpQ2rE9hU


Starboard National Team Rider
2023 14'x23" Allstar Custom Carbon
Starboard Lima M
Starboard Bolt L
Quickblade Trifecta 98
http://laineet.fi/

ukgm

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2016, 12:25:42 AM »
Few videos released about the boards:

https://youtu.be/3QCpQ2rE9hU



Another big increase in the Allstar volume by the looks of things. Good for bigger paddlers like me. I wish they'd maintained a useable sprint board (like the 2014 26 inch width) though. They missed a trick there as the 23 or 21 just won't suit typical paddlers of 85kg+

supuk

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2016, 01:11:35 AM »
unless your current board was under water if the outline,width and length is the same adding volume will just be above the water line so would not make a huge about of difference to how it floats you. Volume is important up to a point  but unless you way about 200Kg you only really need to consider the shape of the board and whats going on above the water line and how that will effect the stability and performance and not the actual volume

coldsup

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2016, 02:11:37 AM »
When I heard they are making the nose bigger I just thought - why on earth - huge already!

There is too much volume in the x 27 for the likes of me already - 90 kg plus and it doesn't like side winds - so I am guessing most use this board in milder conditions.

I have really come down to thinking lower volume boards are better.....
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 02:18:32 AM by coldsup »

yugi

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2016, 02:15:34 AM »
^^^ you are spoiled with your Jimmy Lewis M14!

Those pointy ski jump noses come right out smooth if you poke. Bigger volume noses will carry less water on deck for less time in v choppy upwinds. I guess that's the main reason for them. Will make a difference in races.

photofr

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2016, 02:46:38 AM »
In all fairness, I don't think that the biggest changes for 2017 will be noticeable on the Allstar. The 2017 Sprint seems like it will have a much bigger impact.

Seems so odd that the Unlimited Sprint had a true piercing nose... while all the 12 and 14 footers Sprint boards didn't - but wait 'til you see the brand new Sprint 2017. :)
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

coldsup

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Re: Allstar 2017 changing ?
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2016, 02:54:05 AM »
^^^ you are spoiled with your Jimmy Lewis M14!

Those pointy ski jump noses come right out smooth if you poke. Bigger volume noses will carry less water on deck for less time in v choppy upwinds. I guess that's the main reason for them. Will make a difference in races.

Yup - I guess you are right - if I actually raced I may be coming to a totally diff conclusion. I do agree that the Allstar is good upwind...

 


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