Author Topic: 12'-6" Round Two  (Read 20817 times)

TallDude

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2016, 10:10:42 PM »
Rocker templates are permanently 'fixed' to sled cut in telltale chamfers nose and tail and oh by-the-way if that is not enough how about the entire deck recess...making the big 'L' symbol on my forehead...

So I now have two halves, full deck recess (no rail strips) on both sides, no stringer. Plan is to patch in the foam cut from the top onto the bottom.

Let's talk about stringer/no stringer/stringer alternatives.  I have never built a stringer-less board, let alone something this long.

Right now if I push on the blank it is easy to deflect an inch or more in the middle. Will a foaming PU glue line down the middle be enough to dampen the 'flop' during shaping?
No. Just add some extra adjustable stands. They are floppy. Try doing an 18' , 1 lbs foam board. It's like trying to shape a noodle.

Do folks adjust the rocker during the lamination to counteract any sag or movement in the foam during shaping?

Yes. I wanting to add a little tail rocker during a lamination, so I put down some wax paper with a piece of foam to spread the weight of a paint can I set on it. I then measured it again to make sure I added the right amount of rocker before it cured.

 Or would a layer or cloth and some epoxy be a better glue-up for this?

The Gorilla Glue is better at filling the gaps.

I also thought about router cutting in a spot for a piece of wood to make a buried stringer and then using PU glue fill in the cracks at the surface of the blank and plane everything flush.  The 'I-beam' effect would be less pronounced but also the chance for failure between dissimilar materials would be reduced. You don't need a stringer on racing or touring boards.

Also, for stand-up, would a couple of mini-stringers placed under the normal standing position where the feet would go be more effective than the big one down the middle, if one was trying to tie the top to bottom at the points of greatest load?

 Just an extra layer of 6oz. or a layer of CF in the standing area.

Stuff to ponder. Here are some pics:


Looking good.

It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

Arany

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2016, 10:44:46 PM »
For me the amazing  things  that come from try to build a board  thinking  that this time I wouldn't  make all the  mistakes  like  the  firest  one and work slow I think  what  make  my board nice for me was not buying  apoxy  for the start it give me time . I made big mistake with rocker  the firest one so this time no rocker but I fixed  the rocker  with stripes  of carbon  beffor  I start glass.Good jobe  keep the post love to learn more.

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2016, 08:07:38 AM »
Thanks for all the comments!

I declamped last night and swept/picked up the mess this morning. High heat and humidity today, better day for going to the beach than to work on beach toys. Front is to move through tonight with some storms and then a couple days of nice weather to follow.

I think I am going to replace the tail to get it going the right way and to remove the misaligned glue mark from before. The recess pieces from the 'new' top are just a hair thicker than what is missing on the bottom so I should be in good shape. I may need to add a strip to make it all work but that does not worry me.

Enclosing a few pics, mostly of the LED's as people seem curious. The one shown is 13' (4m) long. It was used once in a room that was 6" (150mm) too short hence then bend at one end.

I am going to liberate a couple of the roller stands to help support the 'noodle' so one of the lights will probably get rigged on other stands for a while.
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2016, 05:18:10 PM »
Putting 'humpty' back together again...new deck recess started and patches glued in and skinned. Had to make fun of myself and make a stencil to remind myself of top and bottom this time. They should be sanded off by the time this is finished.
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

TallDude

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2016, 08:54:51 PM »
Post it's work for me. Glad you got the bottom and top straightened out. It's important  ::)
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2016, 06:37:49 PM »
Top is coped, banded, and sanded. I am planning on a micro balloon and epoxy fillet on the inside corners of the 'floor pan' to soften the lay of the cloths.
Bottom is rough sanded and facing up on the stands, tomorrow's project.
I like this board better now that it bends the right way...



http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

SUP Sports ®

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2016, 07:09:34 PM »
I personally like stringers...if for nothing else, they help keep the shape true...short of a rocker table...and, I think 1.5# foam is overkill...you coulda saved several pounds of weight...

You've also got some serious voids in the foam...obviously, they will get spackled smooth...but, makes me wonder about the overall quality and structural integrity of the core...

I'd go with at least two vents...if not a couple more...;-)
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supuk

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2016, 12:25:47 AM »
Nearly there! When glassing stringer less big boards I just set up three or 4 stands with blocks under them that you can ajust and then use a stright edge on the board to measure the rocker before you start glassing. Stringes are not realy nessasery  for such thick boards and just add weight along with adding a stress point around were you stand a lot on a sup, and even then they can still sag a little when You hang the glass down and wet it out. Foam can varie a lot  from what the manufacturer states, it's worth cutting a small square block and doing the math to see what your actually useing. I have found I can get away with a lot lower density as the quality of the foam is better than from other suppliers.

SUPflorida

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2016, 04:59:26 AM »
I personally like stringers...if for nothing else, they help keep the shape true...short of a rocker table...and, I think 1.5# foam is overkill...you coulda saved several pounds of weight...

You've also got some serious voids in the foam...obviously, they will get spackled smooth...but, makes me wonder about the overall quality and structural integrity of the core...

I'd go with at least two vents...if not a couple more...;-)

If you have/or make  a narrow flat table you can also use your bottom cut off if you did a clean cut with your hot wire, assuming your rocker template is exactly how you want it and your table is:
1) long enough
2) is straight/flat/level

Your bottom cut off will be exactly the rocker you designed with no sag like you could get between stands.

This will work as rocker bed for various shape boards without getting locked into a particular rocker, as each bottom cut off will reflect the individual board it was cut from.

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2016, 08:03:54 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts everyone!

I am pleased with this foam. It tests out to 1.37 PCF , heavier than some, but I also use it for regular surfboards, and other than the screw holes and other dings I put into the foam,  find it void-free and easier to work than the lighter (sub 1 PCF) foams I used in the past.

I normally do two vents on the fore deck, one each side of the stringer. Thanks, that reminds me, I need to order some vents and decide about a handle or two...and maybe some different glass...still need to decide if/what for a 'decorating' scheme on this one.

Deck pan will have a layer of carbon fiber, already in-house.

Jury is still out on stringers. This board had one and I removed it to see if the glue-up was part of the mystery rocker issue that turned out to be simple operator error on my part. The blank with a ply stringer was still able to sag under its own weight. It sags more now without the stringer but settles down nicely by using the 2 additional roller stands along with the sawhorses.

I still have the bottom off-cut in the form of the rest of the block. I think for glassing I will just reset/check the rocker and glass bottom first on the 4 stands mentioned above.

Not much progress today, cleaned up the space and thought abut changing the bow up a bit by making it less canoe-like.

The owner of Round 1 had fun with it on vacation this week so I am more excited about getting this one in the water.
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Be safe, have fun. -J

Arany

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2016, 09:20:46 PM »
I fill the eps with something that call on time it's  so easy and very light

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #41 on: July 06, 2016, 08:28:30 PM »
Ah yes Arany, I am familiar with the product. I just bought some more today.

I flipped it over and learned of a new hazard in the shop. Once the recess is shaped, the remaining bit of foam between it and the sides is east to dent if you forget where the board is bearing on the sawhorses during a sanding session.  I'll need to steam them out with an iron and damp cloth.
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

SUPflorida

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2016, 10:03:39 AM »
I use LED strip lights for side lights.
The light is more directional and the ones I have are portable, plug right into the wall 120VAC and are armored in silicone.

http://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/outdoor-lighting/rope-string-lights/13-cool-white-led-strip-light-120v/p-1444424034193-c-14318.htm?tid=-7745960554483540596



Jrandy...really liked your lighting idea..::ordered rope lights from your link...went for the 18' version. Hope it will be bright enough...not the exact same lights as your 13'. 

Anticipating making a "V"shape reflector out of 1x4 and lining the inside with Denny Board (foil faced high density cardboard used as a thermal barrier in home construction) to maximize the light output. May try to put end caps with a central pivot point so the whole light/reflector can be aimed as desired...up or down.

If not bright enough my wife will inherit/repurpose the lights and I'll reorder what you have...that will depend on their return policy 🤔

jrandy

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2016, 04:43:16 PM »
SUPFlorida-

Maybe you can test the rope lights with a piece of tin foil before building an elaborate reflector system. Their retail stores have a good return policy and even allowed me one exchange on a defective one without a receipt a year later.

The ones I use are billed as '3x brighter than rope lights'. I tested them against a 4' fluoro tube in my kitchen with a 'highly scientific gizmo' (solar cell hooked up to a volt meter at the end of a cardboard tube to exclude scattered light) and observed the the LED's were generating about 75% of the millivolts at the solar cell when compared to the fluoro tube. In practice it is something like the LED's put out at 3' what the tubes do at 4'. The test was on the 6' warm ones, the 13' cools ones are noticeably brighter. Also, the 6' ones worked for an 8' board so some mismatch on length is OK.

When are you starting the build?
http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

SUPflorida

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Re: 12'-6" Round Two
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2016, 07:27:10 PM »
Build started last weekend. I only have the weekends to build and if the weather is good I would rather paddle.

Went back and forth with rocker, laying out several different variations but ended up a template I made up a year ago for an unlimited that never happened. I couldn't get one to come together for my purpose that ticked all the boxes better... The more I tried to tweek it to make it "better," the more my original stood out.

So I hot wired the rocker last Sunday and if I get my fill of paddling this weekend I'll hot wire the plane shape. I was thinking of going lighter on the laminate this time but am rethinking it after damaging my 14 last Saturday.

I never stand my board up, I know better...but I did this one time to let it dry. Seemed wedged in well enough in my upstairs porch railing. It was super hot and after a 7 mile paddle I wanted to cool off..while in the shower I heard a "Wham!"...looked out to see my board laying 3/4 on on the concrete driveway, 1/4 in the yard. Went to see the carnage as it went down hard on a 8" concrete planterbox curb right below where the side transitions to the deck.

3" longitudinal crack in the deck right above the rail ( half under the deck pad) and another longitudinal crack a bit smaller a couple inches lower on the rail. All in all insignificant damage for falling rail first on a very sharp concrete block edge from that distance. There happened to be four layer lap of 5.9 oz on the lower rail and three on the deck where it hit. Makes me want to go two layers of 5.9 top and bottom (with deck patch) on this one at the least.

My plain shape template is 25-1/2" wide X 16'-0" long. Temped to add a few more inches in length but it looks nicely balanced as it is. As I said, hope to cut out the plain shape this weekend if time allows.

The rope lights came in the mail today and I'm not too optimistic on the output.... but we'll see. I didn't look close enough when you posted that link...I got sidetracked worrying about getting some long enough for my 16' board. Totally overlooked the "3 times brighter " part until a couple days after I ordered and they had already shipped them...
I'll chalk that up to a week of 12 hr work days...😬

I did check out some roof flashing tonight that could make a good inexpensive reflector ...$7 per ten foot piece and nice and shinny 😏
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 07:55:12 PM by SUPflorida »

 


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