New 21" wide Starboard Sprint?

[photofr]

ahahah: The obsession with keeping the standing area dry is because I was raised on an island, and things were pretty warm. Now a days, I am in Brittany, and the winters are brutal: I can't stand booties, but I wear them: still, my toes are frozen after every single 3-hour paddle in winter. Yeah, I have tried moving my toes around, and usually make sure that I relax my toes a bunch, but standing in water isn't fun in winter.

Rocker:
Seems identical to the 2016 sprint.

Standing area height:
Not sure if that's what you mean, but the same board with a lower standing area will provide much more stability. In fact, try a Sprint 14x23 in the ocean barefeet, and then try the same board with a pair of running shoes. More stability = more speed (usually).

I can't comment on the rest, but here's something you should know:
The Sprint 2014 didn't have dug out side standing area. The 2015 did, and so did the 2016. This dug out area allows for a wider foot stance, and it's super nice to carry your board (firm grip, for sure). Apparently, or at least as of right now, the 2017 doesn't have that. 

[Area 10]

Photofr - try wearing sealskinz socks inside your neoprene boots in winter. They keep your toes toasty.

Hats off to the guy paddling a JL Sidewinder in the Lost Mills race. Pretty right to paddle a downwind/ocean board like that in a pure flat water race at an international level. He did pretty well as well, which is a good advert for that board (and for him).

[Eagle]

Another idea is to try neoprene socks in your booties - or try knee high taped booties.  With those your feet and calves stay dry and actually sweat they get so hot.  In really cold conditions use the knee high booties with dry pants and integrated booties.  There really is no need to ever worry about standing cold water.

In Vancouver we paddle year round and our feet never are cold or frozen.  If however we wear only booties - our feet do freeze like yours once wet.  They never warm up - they just get colder.

Once the water warms up we mostly wear neoprene Vibrams since we often need to carry our DW boards over rocks.  They do not have a bootie feel - and feel more like a second skin - giving a much better feel on the board.   

[Area 10]

and Lost Mills report... Connors not used to the new Sprint...
http://www.br.de/mediathek/video/sendungen/blickpunkt-sport-regional/standup-paddling-kleiner-brombachsee-100.html

That may be true about Connor not being used to the narrower board, but it could also be that he was just too tired. The kind of mistakes he made mounting his board are the sort of thing that happens when your legs are worn out. It looked to me that Michael Booth had the measure of him in that race. It's fascinating to see the difference in physique between the two. Booth is much more in the shorter and wider, with shorter legs category of eg. Danny Ching. I'm wondering if given the balance requirements of SUP, this may turn out in time to be the ideal SUP racers' physique. Or at least, the typical one.

[SUPflorida]

Standing area height:
Not sure if that's what you mean, but the same board with a lower standing area will provide much more stability. In fact, try a Sprint 14x23 in the ocean barefeet, and then try the same board with a pair of running shoes. More stability = more speed (usually).

I can't comment on the rest, but here's something you should know:
The Sprint 2014 didn't have dug out side standing area. The 2015 did, and so did the 2016. This dug out area allows for a wider foot stance, and it's super nice to carry your board (firm grip, for sure). Apparently, or at least as of right now, the 2017 doesn't have that.

Let me restate the question. Has anyone tried to make two identical boards with the same standing height off the water...one with flat deck (no sidewalks) and one with raised side walls. If so,  what was the speed difference? Is it more about keeping the feet toasty in cold water? Or is there viable proof that water wrapping the rail substantially slows the board? Or is it an inexpensive way to add stiffness to the standing area without adding significant weight or adding more expensive (carbon) material through the introduction an integrated coaming? All of the above? Inquiring minds want to know...🤔

[photofr]

I think that you nailed it: pretty much all the above.
The two main advantages:
STIFFNESS - because you'd end up with a noodle if you didn't have the side walls.
WATER WRAPPING - I'd rather have water wrap nicely around the sidewalls than friction on the entire deck/standing area. Higher side walls also aid in open ocean.

Having said that, there are other advantages (and disadvantages)
Higher rails makes it easier to carry your board (at times).
If you have the same LOW STANDING AREA

[photofr]

... if you have the same LOW STANDING AREA, the board with higher rails will not be submerged as much.
Higher rails, on the other hand, can be a pain:
Falling on your board can hurt a little more (a friend of mine just chipped a tooth).

It's a compromise, where stiffness come first.

[Chilly]

Standing area height:
Not sure if that's what you mean, but the same board with a lower standing area will provide much more stability. In fact, try a Sprint 14x23 in the ocean barefeet, and then try the same board with a pair of running shoes. More stability = more speed (usually).

I can't comment on the rest, but here's something you should know:
The Sprint 2014 didn't have dug out side standing area. The 2015 did, and so did the 2016. This dug out area allows for a wider foot stance, and it's super nice to carry your board (firm grip, for sure). Apparently, or at least as of right now, the 2017 doesn't have that.

Let me restate the question. Has anyone tried to make two identical boards with the same standing height off the water...one with flat deck (no sidewalks) and one with raised side walls. If so,  what was the speed difference? Is it more about keeping the feet toasty in cold water? Or is there viable proof that water wrapping the rail substantially slows the board? Or is it an inexpensive way to add stiffness to the standing area without adding significant weight or adding more expensive (carbon) material through the introduction an integrated coaming? All of the above? Inquiring minds want to know...

It depends on the deck height off the water. If the deck is high enough that water is not going over the deck then raised rails are not necessary. If the deck is sunken then you have to have raised rails because you want water to travel under and around the board, not over it. There’s a speed advantage with sunken decks, but like photoefr pointed out there are some disadvantages. For me it would be Feet-Claustrophobia, a new syndrome caused by 21.5 inch boards with sunken decks.

[Argosi]

I think that you nailed it: pretty much all the above.
The two main advantages:
STIFFNESS - because you'd end up with a noodle if you didn't have the side walls.
WATER WRAPPING - I'd rather have water wrap nicely around the sidewalls than friction on the entire deck/standing area. Higher side walls also aid in open ocean.

Having said that, there are other advantages (and disadvantages)
Higher rails makes it easier to carry your board (at times).
If you have the same LOW STANDING AREA

The water wrapping effect is quite important based on my experience with my Ace and Sprint. I think one reason the Ace is so good in choppy water is that most of the time, the high sides allow the board to go through the water with less drag as a result of water getting on top of the board. It's less of an advantage for the Sprint since its used in flatter conditions, but it still helps.

[photofr]

Small note:
The Sprint has sidewalls that are about 25% taller than the Allstar. Here's a summary from my prospective.

Small days:
Sprint is much dryer.

Med days:
Sprint is still much dryer.

Larger conditions:
Sprint is though, and wet.
Allstar is actually very dry as it is usually surfing at much higher speeds.

[SUPflorida]

As I watched the format of the race play out in the video (remounting the board from a running beach start)...in those type water conditions (flat)...unless the speed penalty of water wraping the deck is significant ...the high sidewalks of the "tray" may not be worth it when it causes you to lose a race due to a bad transition. 

It difinetly needs to be factored in a race strategy that incorporates landing/running/beach re-launch...funny I remember Mark R. in a interview talking about consciously making the deck design of the New FX series flatter for that very reason. In a BOP format it would be much more of a factor.

One thing that might help focus the design attention to benefit the armature racers is if associated races series were run in a variety of water conditions but the paddler was locked into just one board for the series.

Instead of designing just a great optimized flat water board or down wind board or whatever specialized board, the emphasis would be on the best "jack of all trades" board that would better benefit the public as a whole.

While inspiring to watch without a doubt, races like this also beg the question if any of what we see here can be applied in any significant way to our own situation?

Many of us are two to three times older than the "Connors" of the SUP pro world (go Dave K!) ..how many of us could keep up that "Sprayed Roach" paddle cadence? And the big question...the design that is optimized to plane (or semi-plane) with a elite paddler with a ridiculous high power to weight ratio...at a pace that would have 99% of us gasping for breath after the first 50'..is that going to work for the weekend warrior? Or are those designs actually going to slow us down because we can't ever get them to and/or keep them in the intended sweet spot?

I watched a promotional video on the 2016 Starboard Allstar were the narrator was talking about the different width options. The widest version (assumed) shown looked like the rider was putting a lot of effort in but moving very slowly. Was it a bad piece of video? I don't know...but some designs "look" the same, but behave very differently when they are "scaled up."

[photofr]

You make a lot of valid points. I am just going to comment on couple though.

If you are not aiming at being a top notch racer, you can still benefit from having two boards. It's merely a question of money, because in the end, two specialized boards are always going to be better than a single "jack of all trade".

The level of competition at this level is super high: anyone with a great all around board will LOOSE miserably. It comes down to seconds, really. Just take a look at the times: after the first 4 riders, a wave of "maniacs" showed up at the finish line in a cluster... after 18km.

If, however, you are not aiming at the top TOP level of racing, a great all around board could definitely do the trick. Any board like the Allstar 14x25 will be super competitive in the ocean, competitive but though on the flats, and cheerful when you hit confused seas. If you balance is pretty good, you could aim for the Allstar 14x23 and do even better on the flats, while still being relatively stable in open ocean.

There will always be a compromise, but the SPRINT (and similar) will most likely continue to excel for those looking to go faster... really FAST.

[Eagle]

In order to drop the standing area there must be compromises - and sidewalls are mandatory.

When we tested the 28 and 25 AS - my wife on the 25 was pulling away from me upwind pretty easily.  As well the 23 was considerably more efficient than the 25.  Once you easily found the narrower balance point on 23 - the board was quick and stable.

So yes the width makes these boards behave very differently.  Interestingly the 28 felt too stable too slow and too big - with the big boof and wide tail.

[LeeBee]

Per the comments on board speed, the winning time in the Worlds Fastest Paddler at Lost Mills by Conner on the 21 Sprint was 8.4 MPH average over 200 meters from a standing start. Hard to believe any average guy could go over 10 MPH except with GPS error, even over a short distance.

[Kaihoe]

Question...Is a flat deck at that lower level (without the high side walls) really that much of a detriment to speed? Has anyone experimented with both on the same board?

And what's this obsession with keeping the standing area dry? I can see in cold climates, but where I live my feet are burning up...I end up doing some spastic paddle move between strokes to try and cool down a bit.

In short yes, raised sides with a lower deck are much faster and they aren't really there to keep the standing area dry.  Raise sides give you residual volume so the flow of the water can be maintained as the board rolls, yaws and goes through chop. 

As soon as water wraps over the side of the board you get a whole load of new dynamics happening, the flow along the board changes, you get more drag as you have more of the board in contact with the water etc....

As for side by side testing I haven't done any but I know the NSP guys have done enough work to decide that raise sidewalls are much faster, even the 14'x24" downwind board has them.