Author Topic: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?  (Read 9647 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2016, 06:31:01 AM »
It's kind of an unspoken thing, but zoners get special treatment if they ask for it. I can't imagine lending some random tourist one of my surfboards or downwind boards, or a bunch of snokel gear and boogie boards for their kids, but I've done it for several zoners I'd never met before. Taken some along to go surf, and gone along when Boyum guides them, or arranged shuttles with them in Maui or Hood River.

I've taken advantage of the same connection a few times. It's a nice thing to "know" someone where you are going.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

covesurfer

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2016, 11:54:03 AM »
Great advice on this thread. Really recommend going in Summer when Maliko is generally as lined up as it gets. Doing some Kihei runs first is super helpful too.

Kihei can get a bad rap from some paddlers who say it's too easy and that you need to train where you race. But, I find that I learn things on Kihei runs that are extremely useful on Maliko. There are fewer distractions on Kihei because of the groomed, near perfect conditions that can develop. That means I can discover and work on new things more easily. It's also really nice because it starts small, being a zero-fetch run, with small wavelets that take several miles to develop into decent, ridable bumps. It gives you a chance to gradually get used to the conditions.

It's a tough challenge you are putting in front of yourself but well worth it. Because you are actually thinking forward, seeking advice and intending to prepare, your chances of success - defined as enjoying yourself and grinning like a moron for the entire run - are a lot higher. It does take water time however. Like others have said, surfing background is really helpful.

High wind windsurfing background (sailing small boards on sails less than 5.0 meters) really helps as well. Part of the challenge of downwind SUP is staying relaxed and focused in wind/water conditions that scare the crap out of sane people. Yes, you are going with the wind, which helps greatly, but you have to get to a point where you can relax on the water in high wind and waves.  Anything you can do to get water time in high wind conditions will help you - over 15 mph feels pretty windy, over 25 mph feels insane (but oh so good). When you get over 30 mph, it gets into the realm where having some decent experience and some skills already in hand become important. What you see from land is nothing like what you will experience when you're out in the ocean or on the Columbia River. My .002.

Badger

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2016, 12:43:58 PM »
JeffG, I was wondering if you've done any downwinders on Utah Lake or Bear Lake. I Googled them and they look like they might have some pretty decent runs. I know they're not anything close to Maliko or the Gorge but they look better than my local downwind spots.

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/6035589

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/6035605

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MvBCE7lC30

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« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 01:08:32 PM by Badger »
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zachhandler

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2016, 02:24:31 PM »
I can say with certainty that utah lake and bear lake are big enough to make great down wind conditions. Bear lake is the size of san francisco bay south of the I80 bridge. My closest place to downwind is Lake Mille Lacs in MN. it is of similar size at 13x16 miles. Wind of 20 mph will make 3-4 foot conditions. 30 mph will make 6-8 ft and very steep with braking foam piles in the middle.

Great Salt lake I have heard can get huge conditions. So there are a number of good downwind venues within your state.

The challenge is doing it in a safe way, especially when you are alone and without many skills. Lake Mille lacs is similar to bear and utah lake in that it is large and rural without coast guard and without boats large enough to get on the water in 6-8 foot seas. You can die out there. Google my name and "surfski" and you will find a description of a tragic downwinder I was part of up there.

Leash, PFD, cellphone in dry pouch that you can operate through the dry pouch, and flares are all mandatory.  If water temps are below 75 some neoprene would be smart as there is potential to spend a lot of time in the water even if things don't go wrong.

If you are alone you can do out and backs from the downwind shore. That is the safest thing as you cant get far upwind on a sup and the wind will bring you back to where you started. Side shore or offshore winds can be dangerous, especially if the wind is taking you off shore or into areas like cliffs where there is no easy exit from the water.

The best downwind scenario is 2 cars, a partner, and wind running parallel to shore so you never have to be that far from dry land. It will be an all day undertaking when you factor in drive time and shuttling vehicles.

There is nothing in paddle sports more fun than a downwinder. But when we head out on cold remote stormy waters we are on our own. Be careful. Be aware of the risks. Live to paddle another day.

zach

CascadeSup

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2016, 07:25:38 PM »

JeffG

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2016, 03:43:47 PM »
Thanks again everyone, I will be referring to this thread a lot in the future.

I've thought about the possibility of a down wind run on Utah Lake but I'm not sure if it would work.  I've been on it when it has been fairly windy but there doesn't seem to be any clear swells to ride, just really choppy.  The max depth of Utah Lake is only about 14 feet, crazy for how big it is.  I've been a half mile off shore and can stand on the bottom with my head above water.  It is suppose to be dangerous in windy weather, something to do with how shallow it is.

It would be fun to meet some of you when I do make it to Hood River and/or Maui.  Based on the comments here I definitely want to do Viento before doing anything in the ocean.  I'm pretty sure I will be in Hood River at least once this summer.

I like the idea of doing a warm up on Kihei before doing Maliko when I do make it over there.  How consistant is Kihei?  It will be next summer at the earliest.  I want to make sure I am as prepared as I can be without having the ocean to practice in.

When I went out paddling yesterday I started messing around with some of the drills you guys mentioned. Was a good workout for sure.

Badger

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2016, 05:34:35 PM »
Where we downwind on Great Bay in NH is only 3 miles across and 8 - 16 feet deep. Conditions are small but very fun and challenging. We get some pretty awesome glides there for such a short fetch. I wouldn't pass up your local lakes until you've tried them. It may look like chop from a distance but they are actually ridable waves. I guarantee it. Bear Lake especially looks killer. Good practice grounds for the Gorge for sure.

What do you have for a board?

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« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 05:56:15 PM by Badger »
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PonoBill

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2016, 06:09:46 PM »
Had a nice little downwinder today in Hood River, blowing probably 20 to 25. Fun conditions all the way. I didn't think it would be working, but I rode my trike down to the Event Center and learned the shuttle was going. Went back and grabbed my stuff. Surprisingly the shuttle was full.  I had a good run, went at it hard, and was getting every bump I went for and linking up lots. I got smoked by TJ Gulizia and Hannah Hill, but still a good run.

Make the drive. You'll love it. But plan to stay a weekend at least.  Big Winds has a huge assortment of great downwind boards to rent this year. They've really taken this to the next level. They look like all 2016 boards.  Has to be fifty of them on the racks at the event center. I'm going to start renting some just for the varied experience. It's pretty easy to do two or even three runs a day. You legs might not hold up for that, but it's feasible.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

lucabrasi

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2016, 06:29:55 PM »
JeffG, I was wondering if you've done any downwinders on Utah Lake or Bear Lake. I Googled them and they look like they might have some pretty decent runs. I know they're not anything close to Maliko or the Gorge but they look better than my local downwind spots.
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/6035589
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/6035605
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MvBCE7lC30
Nice find.
I have always wondered whether Utah Lake would set up nice for one. Seems every time I am driving by there the wind is going and looks like something to jump on is out there ever since I have learned to think about such things. I have no clue about access all the way around tho. Could be a long hike out if you get blown somewhere but no clue. Never thought about Bear Lake. It's definitely got the access all around, it goes from extremely deep to extremely shallow south to north which is how I would think to try first off but that one picture, "wind driven waves" is perhaps a reason I never gave it much thought. If nothing else, it reinforces some of the stories I have heard about how it gets out there. It changes in a blink there at times as well. Mean ass thunderstorms before you know it. I am sure there would be perfect days but I think Utah Lake would be more predictable to some degree. Seems the winds would be coming from the desert out of the west or southwest and be fairly predictable??  No clue, never have stopped. I really should. Ever thought about Yuba? The Great Salt Lake? I think there is a crew down there somewhere doing some in that area.
A reservoir near me I will go out in the morning and paddle out. Utah Lake reminds me of it to some degree tho and the depth probably averages about 8 feet with the max I think 20 tho it is about 2000 feet higher elevation. A bit smaller lake but the outlaying terrain is more similar to Utah Lake. When the wind comes up in the afternoon I always have a hoot going back. I got the perfect path (what I think would be anyways) picked out to get dropped and paddle back to where I can get picked up. Still haven't. Maybe this year. So often those conditions show up......the sky is black with thunderheads showing their faces.

JeffG

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2016, 07:56:49 AM »
There are a couple of access points on Utah Lake that would work for downwinding.  You could go from the American Fork Boat harbor to Utah Lake State Park or the other way, depends on if you had a North or South wind.  The distance is around 8 miles I believe.

Badger - I have a SIC X14 Pro.  Probably not the best thing to try downwinding with.  I will be renting a board if I go up to Hood River.

JeffG

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2016, 08:37:21 AM »
I signed up for a downwind clinic on June 18th but the more I think about it the more I think I better change to a later date.  Downwinding sounds a bit harder than I originally thought.  If I changed to July I would have an extra month to prepare.  Or if I changed to August I would have a couple of extra months.

A few of you have mentioned trying a couple of the local lakes for downwinding.  I have a SIC X14 Pro.  I'm thinking my board is not going to work to well for downwinding and I don't think my local conditions would justify buying a downwind specific board.  What do you guys think?  Would a downwind board like the SIC Bullet work well for touring around my local reservoirs which is what I do most the time?  Maybe I should consider trading in the X14 Pro for a Bullet or something similar.  The reason I have the X14 Pro is I wanted to try some local flat water races and I thought it was the board that fit my local conditions the best.

Eagle

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2016, 09:09:41 AM »
Maybe just use you X14 Pro and try to catch some easy DB glides.  We started on our Dominator and SB Touring - and those boards worked fine.  Not optimal - but doable.  You quickly learn the nuances of the boards - and over time can easily ride surf and plane them.

By the time we got our Bullet 14V2 and M-14 - we found those DW boards considerably easier and more stable catching waves.  Little tendency to pearl and could stay forward to catch wave after wave.  Start with DB and transition to DW and you should be ok.

So would keep the X14 Pro for flat races and get a Bullet 14 or M-14 for DW.  Most of our crew have not taken DW clinics but just spent a lot of time on the water in windy conditions.  A clinic should help a lot - or just go out with other DW freaks.
Fast is FUN!   8)
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Area 10

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2016, 09:44:27 AM »
Just get out there.

The only bit where downwinding is helped by over-thinking is with matters of safety. The rest is largely trial and (a lot of) error. Just make sure you start small. 15 knots of wind and little ripples that don't quite reach your knees is perfect for starting to learn. You only need a short run to start off with. Just paddle upwind for half a mile then downwind to the start, then repeat until your legs turn to noodles.

Badger

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2016, 10:10:04 AM »
Board Stiff has done a couple downwinders with me on his X14 Pro in small conditions. The board will do it but it will challenge your ability. In heavy conditions I think it would be next to impossible.

I think once you do a few runs on your local lakes and try the Gorge, you will be wanting a downwind board.

Downwind boards make great touring boards. They aren't all that bad for racing either.

I had a JL M-14 for two years, sold that and now have an M-12'6. I only do 8 or 10 downwinders a year on a small inland tidal bay, but I wouldn't have any other type of board for flatwater and distance just because I love downwinding so much.

We are thinking of trying Sebago Lake in Maine this year. It's about half the size of Utah's Bear Lake. Sebago is known for some mighty big waves. That will be my first big wave downwinder.

Unless you are totally into racing, I would sell the X14, get a downwind board, then hit those lakes. I'll bet you will once you experience the Gorge.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 10:18:09 AM by Badger »
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Dusk Patrol

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Re: Can a land locked flat water paddler do Maliko?
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2016, 10:19:19 AM »
I signed up for a downwind clinic on June 18th but the more I think about it the more I think I better change to a later date.  Downwinding sounds a bit harder than I originally thought.  If I changed to July I would have an extra month to prepare.  Or if I changed to August I would have a couple of extra months.

A few of you have mentioned trying a couple of the local lakes for downwinding.  I have a SIC X14 Pro.  I'm thinking my board is not going to work to well for downwinding and I don't think my local conditions would justify buying a downwind specific board.  What do you guys think?  Would a downwind board like the SIC Bullet work well for touring around my local reservoirs which is what I do most the time?  Maybe I should consider trading in the X14 Pro for a Bullet or something similar.  The reason I have the X14 Pro is I wanted to try some local flat water races and I thought it was the board that fit my local conditions the best.

Do you mean you signed up for a clinic at the Gorge? (You suggested that earlier I recall.) If so, Big Winds has a nice selection of DW boards to rent, including wider.  And you can consider the June 18 clinic your 'preparation" for later sessions  ;D   
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 10:21:09 AM by Dusk Patrol »
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