Ooooops I hit the button on a unlimited.

[supuk]

I can get a sub micro rx and tx with a joystick here that will be super easy to use just not got round to it, I may get my farther inlaw to have a play for me if you can post the wireing and circuit stuf as I don't have much electronics knolidge or free time at the moment but would be fun to try on the water. If not maybe I will get a chance when I'm in auz for the winter to have a play. For the 16 though it realy doesn't need it and the simplicity is a big plus, I think it's the most well behaved board I have tried, the length combined with narrow width low volume and rocker make rail steering so easy and you can do it from anywhere on the board and it tracks so well with such low windage it's not like your normal high volume Sic I have over 100l less volume than the f16

[Area 10]

I couldn't imagine hitting the ocean without a rudder.

Imo - you'll get Much longer and more glides, faster, more directional stability, less worrying about getting caught downwind etc etc...

I can see why you'd think that, but in our downwind sea conditions it just isn't the case. The fastest SUPer in our conditions is the one who has the best footwork. Footwork and rudders have an uneasy relationship.

The other thing is that once you add a rudder you lose a lot of surfability. THAT picture of Travis Grant just before he won the M2O demonstrates what unbelievable board control he has, not how well ruddered boards surf. So, if you have surf sections on your way into shore, or you just like surfing your DW boards (like I do) then you give up quite a lot once you exchange a rudder for a fixed fin. A rudder is not a win-win, it's a win-some, lose-some.

[PonoBill]

Rudders aren't really for control, they're for speed. You can make changes to your direction with minimal drag. Changing direction by just moving the tail.  I had that amply demonstrated to me when I tried a forward rudder. I thought moving the front of the board would be less draggy. It's not.

The fastest SUPer is always the one with the best footwork, rudder or no rudder.

My design for the radio rudder is a lot more complicated than what could be done, but it can be built with no custom electronics. I use XBee Series1 transceivers for the radio, which take care of error detection and external interference. I played with a lot of different control devices, including touchpad, micro-joystick, thumb joysticks, and sttled on two simple pushbuttons that do different things depending on how long they are held down and if they are held down together.  The servo is driven by an Arduino microcontroller, which makes programming easy and permits adding other features. Adding an autopilot was just a matter of adding a magnetometer with gyros and accelerometers to correct for tilt and pitch. Sounds complicated but it's just one chip, a couple of wires, and perhaps fifty lines of code.

[UKRiverSurfers]

I couldn't imagine hitting the ocean without a rudder.

Imo - you'll get Much longer and more glides, faster, more directional stability, less worrying about getting caught downwind etc etc...

I can see why you'd think that, but in our downwind sea conditions it just isn't the case. The fastest SUPer in our conditions is the one who has the best footwork. Footwork and rudders have an uneasy relationship.

The other thing is that once you add a rudder you lose a lot of surfability. THAT picture of Travis Grant just before he won the M2O demonstrates what unbelievable board control he has, not how well ruddered boards surf. So, if you have surf sections on your way into shore, or you just like surfing your DW boards (like I do) then you give up quite a lot once you exchange a rudder for a fixed fin. A rudder is not a win-win, it's a win-some, lose-some.

In the UK folk seem to think rudders are for steering? It's a total fallacy. Also makes UK paddlers look pretty kooky imo.

Too much BS talked in UK SUP  plain and simple..

It's run by guys with no real paddle background who use FB as thier sole platform. U.K. Sup is owned by a USA company who isn't even paddling interested.

As far as the south coast conditions.... Trust me! The whole channel is child's play compared to Caithness and Sutherland. I'm only aware of two uk paddlers who've bothered to venture up there. Both are northerners.

This rant is not aimed at you A10 but at everyone who runs the industry in the UK.

[yugi]

^ Sorry, but your point being??? I think I missing something.

I'll agree on Caithness and Sutherland being for the hardy. I've been to Orkney and it sure is nice n windy there!

[supuk]

Not quite sure what that was about ether but anyway the transmitter turned up for testing a rc rudder today, this will go in or on the paddle with a small battery and rocker swich for left and right and a reciver is on its way just got to deside on what type of servo to use but will get the basics done before that. Allso need to think if to make it an addition to the fixed fin or a stand alone rudder. It will be a interesting experiment to see how it feels but not convinced there will be a huge difference in performance.

[Area 10]

I couldn't imagine hitting the ocean without a rudder.

Imo - you'll get Much longer and more glides, faster, more directional stability, less worrying about getting caught downwind etc etc...

I can see why you'd think that, but in our downwind sea conditions it just isn't the case. The fastest SUPer in our conditions is the one who has the best footwork. Footwork and rudders have an uneasy relationship.

The other thing is that once you add a rudder you lose a lot of surfability. THAT picture of Travis Grant just before he won the M2O demonstrates what unbelievable board control he has, not how well ruddered boards surf. So, if you have surf sections on your way into shore, or you just like surfing your DW boards (like I do) then you give up quite a lot once you exchange a rudder for a fixed fin. A rudder is not a win-win, it's a win-some, lose-some.

In the UK folk seem to think rudders are for steering? It's a total fallacy. Also makes UK paddlers look pretty kooky imo.

Too much BS talked in UK SUP  plain and simple..

It's run by guys with no real paddle background who use FB as thier sole platform. U.K. Sup is owned by a USA company who isn't even paddling interested.

As far as the south coast conditions.... Trust me! The whole channel is child's play compared to Caithness and Sutherland. I'm only aware of two uk paddlers who've bothered to venture up there. Both are northerners.

This rant is not aimed at you A10 but at everyone who runs the industry in the UK.

Well, no offence taken, mate. But I feel like I've just joined in the middle of a conversation. Something has clearly got your goat, but I'm not sure what or why, or how I fit into it.

There is a lot of BS in SUP in general - I'm not sure how much worse the UK is than any other place. I suppose that the sport is very new, and we are all trying to figure it it - and that allows some people to claim a level of expertise that might actually be based on shaky foundations. The more I SUP, the less confident I am about what I know - and the more sure I am that very few others have much of a clue either!

Yes, conditions up North can be extremely severe. I don't think anyone could possibly argue with that. How does that relate to the current topic?

Hope you feel better for having had that rant, anyway!

[Area 10]

Not quite sure what that was about ether but anyway the transmitter turned up for testing a rc rudder today, this will go in or on the paddle with a small battery and rocker swich for left and right and a reciver is on its way just got to deside on what type of servo to use but will get the basics done before that. Allso need to think if to make it an addition to the fixed fin or a stand alone rudder. It will be a interesting experiment to see how it feels but not convinced there will be a huge difference in performance.

What a great experiment. It will be interesting to see what a difference being able to use the rudder while you are standing with your back foot much further towards the fin (i.e. than in a standard setup) will make in short period stuff, vs. standing in a conventional position (i.e. as if you had a deck-mounted rudder mech to operate).

[PonoBill]

You can buy waterproof servos, made for boats, or you can waterproof your own. Search youtube for "waterproof a servo".  You don't need anything huge, a standard size metal gear servo is fine, I've even used plastic geared ones with no problem. There isn't much torque required, and if you make the servo arm short and the rudder arm long it's even less--and the servo response will be slower, which is good.

You don't need a huge amount of motion, ten degrees is adequate. The biggest problem you're going to have is turning speed. Servos are pretty fast if you just say "go" and flip a switch.  I added a lot of time delay to the travel, and made the speed "expo", meaning the longer I held the button down the faster the servo moved--a benefit of using a microcontroller and writing the software. You'll probably get used to it and just modulate the steering with how long you hold the button down. 

Chose a momentary switch. I've never seen a momentary rocker switch. but they might exist. If not use two momentary buttons so you can modulate the response with shorter taps.

[supuk]

i haven't looked in to exactly what functions the tx has but i believe it has some programability which should cover all those things.  Like you say there are a number of choices for servos and i won't need much travel so just a matter of finding the most suitable from everything thats out there. I think i will more than likely go for a Fixed fin with rudder using a rotary drive rather than a stand alone rudder which will take some thinking but i think from a redundancy aspect it makes sense

[yugi]

Not quite sure what that was about ether but anyway the transmitter turned up for testing a rc rudder today, this will go in or on the paddle with a small battery and rocker swich for left and right and a reciver is on its way just got to deside on what type of servo to use but will get the basics done before that. Allso need to think if to make it an addition to the fixed fin or a stand alone rudder. It will be a interesting experiment to see how it feels but not convinced there will be a huge difference in performance.

What a great experiment. It will be interesting to see what a difference being able to use the rudder while you are standing with your back foot much further towards the fin (i.e. than in a standard setup) will make in short period stuff, vs. standing in a conventional position (i.e. as if you had a deck-mounted rudder mech to operate).

Notice that rudders are mounted much further up front than typical fin location. For reasons stated.

[supuk]

I few of you will probably be keen to hear that my 6mths are up and Landed back in the uk yesterday. I have been so excited to get back to a unlimited board after being on my 14 in aus however as I sold my last one to A10 to help find my trip it's time to build anouther naturally the first thing I did when I got back was see I had some foam in stock so In the next few days I can start cutting. The shape will be the same except a inch or so narrower however I may do one or two others of varying sizes as a bit of a experiment. Watch this space

[PonoBill]

I promised Larry I'd revisit the RC rudder this summer. I'll drag everything out and build a couple. I want to 3D print a case that holds the electronics, battery, servo, and rudder connection so it could just be glued down on top of a standard rudder system. Might be tricky making the connection, but I'll work on it. In the process, I'll draw up the circuit diagram and provide the code here on the zone, and the design for the case too if I get one working well. I have a lot of projects going and I'm still not sure what my car racing will be like. I still have some double vision in my right gaze, which makes right side peripheral vision a little dodgy. When I try to concentrate on anything on the right side it gives me a bit of vertigo. Not good at 135mph.

If that keeps up I'll have a bit more time.

[surfcowboy]

Welcome home man. 

Glad to have you back in the lab.

[Area 10]

supuk - narrower? Jeez, I can't buy that when you've got bored of it, so what's the point 😀 How about building one two inches wider instead so wobbly old muppets like me can try out your homegrowns without having to prance on the deck like a ballerina on a slack-line? You could fit a BBQ on it for when you find it too easy.