Naish 2017 Javelin Maliko?

[warmuth]

  The difference I've noticed is that the more "draggy" design over time saps power. I ordered a whiplash over a blackfish as my flat to mild race board because over time it will be faster due to the marginally less effort it will require. There's not much difference between my vapor and my v3 if I go do a bunch of short sprints but at three miles it's noticeably harder to maintain speed on the vapor and the v3 isn't a straight flat water board. For 500m a lot more can be tolerated than can be at mile 4 or 5. We're also talking about some very small percentage points here as well but winning or finishing a place higher by mere seconds is a common occurrence.

[Luc Benac]

  The difference I've noticed is that the more "draggy" design over time saps power. I ordered a whiplash over a blackfish as my flat to mild race board because over time it will be faster due to the marginally less effort it will require. There's not much difference between my vapor and my v3 if I go do a bunch of short sprints but at three miles it's noticeably harder to maintain speed on the vapor and the v3 isn't a straight flat water board. For 500m a lot more can be tolerated than can be at mile 4 or 5. We're also talking about some very small percentage points here as well but winning or finishing a place higher by mere seconds is a common occurrence.

Without been able to put some numbers on this, I do share the same feeling of the power been drained faster than before on anything past a few km hence my purchase of the BF 24" after paddling the BF 26" for some months.
But I also note that if it comes down to paddling in adverse conditions like quartering and cross-chop, the benefit of the design seems to make out for the difference with a strict displacement even on longer course. i.e both may be equally efficient at the end of the day

I am going to take the time to learn paddle the BF 24" to see if it is the "right balance" for me before considering selling the BF 26" possibly in exchange for a more distance oriented board (thinking of the 14x27 Eradicator) for longer than 10 km paddles or for nothing if the BF 24" could become the board to do both fast flat short paddles and longer efficient ones.

[ukgm]

  The difference I've noticed is that the more "draggy" design over time saps power. I ordered a whiplash over a blackfish as my flat to mild race board because over time it will be faster due to the marginally less effort it will require. There's not much difference between my vapor and my v3 if I go do a bunch of short sprints but at three miles it's noticeably harder to maintain speed on the vapor and the v3 isn't a straight flat water board. For 500m a lot more can be tolerated than can be at mile 4 or 5. We're also talking about some very small percentage points here as well but winning or finishing a place higher by mere seconds is a common occurrence.

Without been able to put some numbers on this, I do share the same feeling of the power been drained faster than before on anything past a few km hence my purchase of the BF 24" after paddling the BF 26" for some months.
But I also note that if it comes down to paddling in adverse conditions like quartering and cross-chop, the benefit of the design seems to make out for the difference with a strict displacement even on longer course. i.e both may be equally efficient at the end of the day

I am going to take the time to learn paddle the BF 24" to see if it is the "right balance" for me before considering selling the BF 26" possibly in exchange for a more distance oriented board (thinking of the 14x27 Eradicator) for longer than 10 km paddles or for nothing if the BF 24" could become the board to do both fast flat short paddles and longer efficient ones.

I'm mobile at the moment Lus so I'll get back to you on your previous points when I have more time. However, one thing I did learn today (based on something you said the other day) was that the board performs considerably better when the stroke rate is increased to maintain power (but reducing the force at the blade to compensate). Take the blade past your feet at all and the board really struggles on flatter water. I hadn't really thought through matching my stroke to the board yet but it may be the way ahead in this case.

[Luc Benac]

the board performs considerably better when the stroke rate is increased to maintain power (but reducing the force at the blade to compensate). Take the blade past your feet at all and the board really struggles on flatter water.

I also noticed this again last Saturday. A light "effortless pull" at high cadence seems to bring higher speed on flat water. I could see the Mako showing 0.3 or more speed increase.
The problem been of course that this kind of stroke is difficult for me. Not only physically but also my nature is more to fall back onto a longer purposeful stroke for distance and I do need to kick myself back into it all the time (Mako speedometer to the rescue). Maybe this is just not the type of board for me on long distance period or maybe I can and should keep making effort to adjust. I am also not sure that this would work for upwind.

[warmuth]

  Rough conditions are probably way less about hull design in an absolute sense and more about which board can you paddle better on. I won't be on the whiplash if it's rough, I have a blackfish coming for that. I also kept it at 26, I can't see a real benefit for me to use a 24" board if it's bad enough that I can't use the whiplash. While I'm sure there is a breakpoint where a 24" BF would be ideal I need it to be able to handle any possible nasty condition. If it's gnarly I think the general chaos of the water pretty much negates a 2" width penalty.
 

[JEG]

Thanks to kite republic for the test (82kg rider) of 2017 Naish Maliko 14 x 26 elite.

Conditions were perfect (windy st.kilda and choppy).

Head wind was nice though not as good as the bulbous nose board's like the nsp etc perhaps the maliko nose were design to do good in dw not up wind.
Side wind and little wave chop were stable with that rail and recessed deck. On my way home small dw runners was awesome fun for a hack like me and coming from a 24 width was nice to be on a 26 width board.
Would be nice to test the board on flat days to see how it feels but I'm sure it goes well.

Depends on your taste but I like this board. Looks great and it feels nice and light. I would do all conditions on this board and learn to foot work and watch that nose dive on rougher days.

[Luc Benac]

  Rough conditions are probably way less about hull design in an absolute sense and more about which board can you paddle better on. I won't be on the whiplash if it's rough, I have a blackfish coming for that. I also kept it at 26, I can't see a real benefit for me to use a 24" board if it's bad enough that I can't use the whiplash. While I'm sure there is a breakpoint where a 24" BF would be ideal I need it to be able to handle any possible nasty condition. If it's gnarly I think the general chaos of the water pretty much negates a 2" width penalty.
 

Same reasoning here, except that a BF 24" used was available locally at a good price and I am light so BF 24" should have me covered for everything up to a certain point.
Whiplash would have been an option but was only available new.
Plus if there is a chance of downbreeze/downwind suddenly popping-up and I am with only one board on the roof, it would be nice to be able to do so. BF 24" would be likely nicer than Whip 25" for this.

[JEG]

  Rough conditions are probably way less about hull design in an absolute sense and more about which board can you paddle better on. I won't be on the whiplash if it's rough, I have a blackfish coming for that. I also kept it at 26, I can't see a real benefit for me to use a 24" board if it's bad enough that I can't use the whiplash. While I'm sure there is a breakpoint where a 24" BF would be ideal I need it to be able to handle any possible nasty condition. If it's gnarly I think the general chaos of the water pretty much negates a 2" width penalty.
 

Same reasoning here, except that a BF 24" used was available locally at a good price and I am light so BF 24" should have me covered for everything up to a certain point.
Whiplash would have been an option but was only available new.
Plus if there is a chance of downbreeze/downwind suddenly popping-up and I am with only one board on the roof, it would be nice to be able to do so. BF 24" would be likely nicer than Whip 25" for this.

Luc Benac, it would be interesting a board test against the BF 24" and WL 25" on the ocean and flat days?

[Luc Benac]

Luc Benac, it would be interesting a board test against the BF 24" and WL 25" on the ocean and flat days?

If anybody around here wants to provide the Whiplash 25", I would be delighted to oblige as much as I can :-)

[DavidJohn]

My x26 Maliko is by far the fastest DW board I've ever paddled.. I can only imagine how much faster the x24 is..

Check out Andy's recent vid showing him on his x24.. Amazing speed.. 

[Luc Benac]

Luc Benac, it would be interesting a board test against the BF 24" and WL 25" on the ocean and flat days?

BTW, when I asked Dave Boehne about the two board families, he mentioned that stability of both should be the same when following the below.
same stability for:
BF 26" and WHIP 27",
BF 24" and WHIP 25"

Also I am sure that the results of such a test could be different for an accomplished paddler versus Luc the average paddler....the former can overcome situations that would otherwise penalize one board against the other and that would be more apparent with the latter on (or off) the board.

[Stand Up Pittsburgh]

I know the 2017 Maliko has the chimed rails. How does the 2016 compare to the 2017 as far as downwind, up wind, side chop and flat water?

[warmuth]

   My V3 25.5 is more stable than my Vapor 26 on flat water but much less so in chop, and the gap grows the worse it gets. The whiplash and blackfish are probably roughly comparable to that although the WL probably isn't more stable at any point but the growing gap should hold true. At what point the two overlap in flat water performance would be interesting to know. In flat water only though the whiplash can likely be ridden at the same narrow width that the blackfish can and it's back to which board is faster. Both Dave and Justin agreed the Whiplash was the faster board in flatter conditions. Ultimately it would be a dream to have 10 boards to cover every water condition and each one would be the fastest in that particular scenario but we can't all be area10.  So one narrower flatwater oriented board and one wider rough water board it is.
 
  Since this is the Maliko thread I'll throw in that it would've been my choice for the conditions racer but the BF being custom as well as made in the US by Infinity for a few hundred less got the nod, plus I can endlessly confuse and amuse myself with a bajillion different fin combos.

[manta]

I would also love a comparison between the 2016 maliko and the 2017.

[Luc Benac]

   My V3 25.5 is more stable than my Vapor 26 on flat water but much less so in chop, and the gap grows the worse it gets. The whiplash and blackfish are probably roughly comparable to that although the WL probably isn't more stable at any point but the growing gap should hold true. At what point the two overlap in flat water performance would be interesting to know. In flat water only though the whiplash can likely be ridden at the same narrow width that the blackfish can and it's back to which board is faster. Both Dave and Justin agreed the Whiplash was the faster board in flatter conditions. Ultimately it would be a dream to have 10 boards to cover every water condition and each one would be the fastest in that particular scenario but we can't all be area10.  So one narrower flatwater oriented board and one wider rough water board it is.

It looks like you and me do think somewhat alike on many points and

plus I can endlessly confuse and amuse myself with a bajillion different fin combos.

on many way to spend some time.... :-)