Cardio, is SUP enough?

[JeffG]

Do you guys do other forms of exercise for cardio when training for racing?  I just started SUPing last summer.  I've been an avid runner for years and SUPing does not get my heart rate up like running does.  So I was wondering if most people who race do other forms of exercise to get in a better cardio workout.  Or maybe I am doing it wrong and need to be going harder but don't want to end up with a shoulder injury.  I do get great core/overall body workout but not cardio so much. I'm flat water paddling on local reservoirs.

[Board Stiff]

I also find that my muscles and joints often fatigue before I can elevate my heart rate very high, especially when paddling upwind. A smaller blade and shorter stroke can help increase the cadence and drive the heart rate higher. Pushing for a faster than comfortable cadence while focusing on involving the core in the stroke can also help.

But I don't supplement with other cardio, at least anything more strenuous than mowing the lawn or going for a hike, or occasionally doing some HIIT intervals of bodyweight exercises (pushups, burpees, squats, jumping jacks, etc).

[Area 10]

This is a common phenomenon when fit people start to do another sport. You haven't developed the SUP-specific muscle endurance and the necessary techniques sufficiently to stress your heart before your muscles give out. Once you have been going hard at SUP for a while you will find that going hard absolutely kills just about every part of you haha! A colleague of mine who used to compete at triathlons at a high level said, upon taking up SUP racing "I thought I was fit until I started SUP racing!".

For the first year of SUP, I swam more than I SUPed, and struggled to get my heart above 120-130 when SUPing, even though I could max out my heart when swimming. Now I can pretty max out my HR at every SUP session if I want. A friend of mine who is a exercise addict found the same thing.

[FloridaWindSUP]

Sup training regularly gets my HR up and over my age-based maximum HR, so I assume it's just as good cardio as running when you're going hard. For example...

https://www.strava.com/activities/564576412/analysis

I think it's just a little trickier to push yourself hard enough on the SUP to get to that high intensity cardio level. If you use your whole body when you paddle, you put tons of force into each stroke, and you do a rapid cadence with no "coasting," your HR will get up there. Start paddling a particular short course for time, trying to break your personal best every time, and I think you'll see higher HRs. Maybe also try a narrower board and a smaller paddle blade so your muscles don't wear out before your cardio is fully taxed.

You've got a good point about that shoulder injury thing, though. SUP probably puts more wear on your body than other forms of cardio, and it's not good to just go and go and go every day on the sup like you might do with running. So if you think you need some additional cardio training, running or biking might be a good way to get it.

Of course, if your goal is to improve in sup racing, and sup paddling isn't challenging your cardio, then I'd say your cardio is not the weak link in your sup fitness... And you'd probably benefit more from working on your strength and skills than on adding more to the cardio that you're not even using.

[mountain sup]

I would agree with the above.  However, here is my background and what I do for cardio.  I am 56, 6' and 178lbs and have been paddling for about 7 years.  I also mountain bike, which I have been doing for about 15 years.  Mountain biking has provided a great cardio workout, however over time I found my upper body falling further out of shape, thus I turned to SUP.  Like we often hear, mixing it up is great.  With paddling I find that my average heart rate after 1-1/2 paddle is about 137, with mountain biking over the same time is about 145.  I am strictly a recreational paddler, however I do try to work on my technique and speed.  A couple people that I paddle with who have been paddling far longer then I, say that I have a fairly strong balanced stroke, and they attribute this to biking.  Speaking to other paddlers who often talk about being as tired in their legs as their upper body after an hour+ on the water, biking has really helped with lower strength and balance especially as I get older.  So with cardio, I don't get to worried that it stays low during SUP'ing, and I prefer go longer and smoother and occasionally put in a few bursts, but being careful of upper joints, shoulders, etc. and afterwards feeling good.

[Bulky]

SUP probably puts more wear on your body than other forms of cardio, and it's not good to just go and go and go every day on the sup like you might do with running.

I hear where you coming from, but have to say my experience has been completely the opposite.  I sup 4-5 times a week--added up to over 1000mi last year.  Haven't felt any wear and tear on my body whatsever--just the soreness that comes from a good daily workout.

About 2-3 years ago I used to get occasional shoulder pain.  Not sure if this was the remedy, but I lost close to 50lbs thanks to my daily SUP regimen and haven't felt a hint of anything.

Can't even compare that to running.  There have been times in my life where I've tried to use a running regimen for cardio and probably couldn't keep it up for more than 2-3wks as the impact on my knees was too unpleasant.

[eastbound]

i get decent cardio sup surfing--more like windsprints, esp when scratching desperately through the work zone

8 days ago at a holy deep place in RI i encountered waist high glass--lapped so furiously i had to sit down and catch my breath after a half hour. fun

[covesurfer]

This is my fifth year doing standup paddling. I don't do much flatwater anymore, as it's rare on Maui, but I paddle in some form or other (surf, open ocean/no wind, or downwind) nearly every single day. I'm in my late 50's. I'd say standup and OC1 paddling are my primary means of staying fit, although I supplement with a relatively small amount of biking (mainly for a few months of the year, 15 to 20 miles, 4x/week) and regular walking (beach and hills, 2 to 5 miles, four times a week).

I agree that paddling upwind is hard on your shoulders. Even with good technique. Your body is acting as a sail, the board has even more friction to overcome with moving air and water going the opposite direction and the paddle blade also has to overcome the wind forces. Even 10 mph can be too much. I avoid upwind paddling as the risk of injury overcomes the benefits, at least for me.

Agree with the other posts that as your stroke and technique improve, and as your body adapts to doing standup, you will be able to get all the cardio you need/want. I believe it's important, especially with flat water grinding, that you use a relatively small blade and a higher cadence. Just like spinning a smaller gear on a bike, the load goes from your muscles trying to over power the stroke to your cardiovascular system. You can't overpower with a smaller blade, which I'd call something with less than 90 square inches, so you have to make up for it with a higher stroke rate.

A good stroke and a well sized paddle are critical for making max speed and avoiding injury. My first year of standup, I jumped in fully and regularly did 9 mile downwind runs, sometimes more than 7x/week.  I used to get all kinds of pains in the upper back, between the shoulders and even in my neck muscles. My shoulders themselves rarely got sore.  But, I believe my pains came from less than optimal technique and because it was an entirely new activity that my body had to adapt to.

It's worth having your stroke evaluated by an expert and getting enough technical knowledge that you can always be working on improving it. My heart rate monitor, which I rarely wear, is a function on my Garmin 310xt. That at least gives the chance to measure hr on the same course in different conditions with different levels of perceived effort. Once you collect a few weeks of data, you can really analyze things meaningfully.

I used to bicycle race. Your heart rate goes to ridiculous levels in that sport. If you're a competitive runner, and you're running intervals or hill training, it's the same deal.  There is mounting evidence showing that, especially as we get into our 50's and beyond, pushing your cardio to extreme levels can result in scarring and exercise-induced atrial fibrillation in some people. A surprising number of older bike racers that I knew developed the issue and underwent a corrective procedure called ablation that is intended to stop the a-fib. Then, they went back to racing, which seems really questionable to me. 

The a-fib thing is very interesting subject for serious athletes that are aging and want to continue being active. From what I've been reading, the bottom line seems to be, higher heart rates, at the upper end of your hr range, are not necessary for good fitness training and may even be harmful to your health. I'm talking about athletes in their late 40's and older. Anyway, you may not need to be at 90% of your max to be getting the benefits that you really need. Something to look into if you are interested. I feel like standup paddling gives me great cardio as well as a balanced muscle/joint workout. Running and cycling both emphasize some muscle groups and joints over others, often resulting in muscular imbalances. There are few older runners that don't have some kind of chronic injury issues. And, I won't go into bike-fit guys with no upper body and the issue bones getting brittle from non-weight bearing exercise.  SUP hasn't been around that long but my suspicion is that going forward, we'll see fewer injuries and better long-term ability to participate in the sport as we age. My two cents. Worth what it cost you.

[starman]

Include doing sprints in your SUP routine. Try this and check you HR when done;

[supsurf-tw]

I find it best to supplement SUP with a few weekly bouts of HIIT cardio or some 50 rep squats. You're just not using your legs in a manner with SUP to get the heart rate elevated. SUP is great for more of a Steady State type of cardio training however to really tax the CV system a bit higher heart rate is beneficial.

[Eagle]

Compared to SUP - fast downhill mountain running provides a far easier very high sustained bpm cardio workout than what we can ever achieve on a SUP - and is a lot more fun to boot.  Kinda like a fast mogul ski run but with a much higher risk level.  You mess up - you bleed.

Was doing sprints the other day catching short glides in DB slop and chop - and was totally gassed trying to get my board to semi-plane.  However my average heart rate was pretty low overall - since I had to take time to recover.  Other times have gone near full out over 5 miles - but could not get to a high sustained average heart rate because my musculature fatigued.  Balance also creates a factor when you get tired on-the-water - reducing your bpm output further.

So it depends on the individual if SUP itself provides enough of a cardio workout.  If you do a fair amount of land training already - then probably not.  Running for us provides a much better cardio workout - especially running mountain trails.

[JeffG]

Thanks for all the great info! I think you guys have a great point. My technique isn't great and my muscles are probably fatiguing before I can get my heart rate up. With practice hopefully I can learn to get my heart rate up more. I will be turning 50 next year.  Running at the level I want to is taking it's toll on my body.  I have chronic plantar fasciitis issues that I have been battling for close to 7 years.  Lately I have had some calf strains and a knee that is acting up.  I was training for a couple of 100's this year but my body just isn't going to take it anymore. I started to learn how to SUP last year and even bought a nice SIC X14 Pro.  It is a lot of fun.  I would like to try some flat water racing but am most interested in downwinding.  I plan to go to the gorge this summer for a downwind clinic.  I am worried about loosing fitness switching over to SUP but I'm sure I will gain a lot of strength in my upper body.  I still plan to run but will be cutting my mileage way back. Downwinding looks like a blast!

[mrbig]

Starman, +1 on sprint paddling. Rest pause fartlek interval training is also a way to get the old ticker as high as you dare!

My situation is unique as I am not a racer, but have been doing a lot of intense ( at least for me ) flatwater
 paddling as my main source of cardio since my SCA.

Also noticed in my attempts to apply the Connor sit, stand, variation the forward press of the hips adds a new level of intensity. No GPS, no speed info but my HR sure responds. I think it's the splashing and thrashing..
    

[Eagle]

Ha - if you get into DW - you will love that.  Running does come with its injuries especially from over-use.  We know a few distance runners and they always are recovering from one injury or another.  Lucky for us we only started running a couple of years ago to speed up body fat loss.  Worked a charm for that.

[Kaihoe]

I find the board you are paddling makes a huge difference my heart rate response.  On quick race boards I can blast past my age related limit very quickly, in fact its really hard to stay below the grey zone (L3) and pretty easy to get into 90%.

But on a cruiser type board I get a completely different response, I just cannot get my heart rate anywhere near the same. I can get up to L1 but haven't got a hope of hitting my anaerobic threshold