What is faster on a downwinder

[Stand Up Pittsburgh]

What is faster on a downwinder Prone or SUP?

[peterp]

sup - look up the M2O results and check the time differences http://www.molokai2oahu.com/history/records/

[balance_fit]

Standup is faster, in pure downwinders, where strong wind pushes on the sup paddler in a very similar direction to the wayline, and the paddler's body acts like a sail, helping the paddler to catch bumps.

I've found, though, paddling on my prone 12', that I can stay with my peers on 14' sup, on downbreezers with close period small bumps (where the body-sail effect is negligible), since it's very easy for me to catch those bumps. Also, on very confused sections where balance is an issue, i can surge ahead of my standing up peers. And also, if there's a wind shift resulting in sups having to favor one side paddling, meaning that the wind blows off course.

But on a perfect downwind course, sup will be faster.
*When reviewing the results from Molokai (thanks for the link peterp), please keep in mind that stock prone paddleboard is 12' and stock sup is 14' and under. And those 2 feet are meaningful concerning speed.

[Southbay]

Catalina has been won by a SUP for the last 6 years or so, and that a flat water race. Sup is faster in general.


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[balance_fit]

Catalina has been won by a SUP for the last 6 years or so, and that a flat water race. Sup is faster in general.


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Catalina Classic is a prone paddleboard only race. http://catalinaclassicpaddleboardrace.org/

 Catalina Crossing is another race that includes OC1 & 2, Surfski and SUP, but not prone paddleboard.

For a more meaningful comparison, check Carolina Cup event, specifically, the Graveyard event, where prone and sup are included on the same course, at the same time.

[Southbay]

Balance, you are correct, the Classic is prone only.  I was referring to the race from Catalina that has both: Rock2Rock.  My bad, as I said "Catalina" and there is only one "Catalina".....I believe Rock2Rock has been won by a SUP for the last 6 years-ish.  I was living in the South Bay when the first SUP won Rock2Rock (overall) and we were saying how SUP's are now faster than prone.  Of course, it depends on who is on the SUP and who is on the prone, but in general the SUP is faster in the flats and way faster in a downwind situation.  We have paddles!  Its not really a fair fight. 

Here is a article about the race.
http://www.easyreadernews.com/72101/rock-2-rock-catalina-to-san-pedro/


Since the original thread is "What is faster on a Downwinder" definitely SUP. 

[blueplanetsurf]

Prone is faster into the wind, no doubt, and in some other situations, like balance fit said.  Prone boards have less drag as they are narrower and more rounded and it took many years for SUP's to beat the fastest prone times in the M2O race.
I like to use this analogy:  If you have to move a pile of sand, can you do it faster using your hands or using a shovel?

[headmount]

Whether or not prone or SUP is faster is a small issue compared to the damage to your cervical vertebrae sustains during long periods of prone paddling.  They don't call them misery sticks for nothing.  I did 10 yrs of prone, with mostly ten mile runs off north shore Maui, and at 65 my neck is shot.  Over ten years now of SUP and I still feel fine, just don't ask me to turn around to look at something.

[balance_fit]

Whether or not prone or SUP is faster is a small issue compared to the damage to your cervical vertebrae sustains during long periods of prone paddling.  They don't call them misery sticks for nothing. 

Very sorry for your lesions at the cervical level Headmount. Once spurs have taken over, it's hard to deal with it. I feel your pain.

"Damage to the cervical vertebrae during long periods of prone paddling". I should add here, for example and personal experience, cycling hunched over on a time trial bike for hours on a daily basis, and speed skating, both of  which replicate the flexion at hip and concomitant compensation at lumbar and thoracic segments with counterbalancing extension at neck that is seen in knee paddle boarding. Even sitting in front of the pc at work, which we all know very well, among other similar positions, apply here too.   

These postures all face a common denominator, resulting in pain, which is trying to compensate with very few cervical vertebrae what the rest of the spine is ill positioned, and not conditioned, to contribute to. Read: Posture.

Yes, call me an outlaw, or a confused being, because i took up prone paddling and longboard surfing at 50+. Yes, i did it, and in the process, had to reevaluate what cervical mobility and back extensor proficiency meant. And i found that one can not compensate with less than 7 cervical vertebrae what 33 are meant to do. So, the whole spine, from the hip to the head, has to contribute to correct positioning. If one sits hunched over in front of the computer, and attempts to look to the monitor, the neck will scream. Same in cycling, skating, et al. The whole spine needs to be correctly engaged in correct posture. If not, one area will be injured. This is solved by positioning and training.

On the other hand, the paddling motion in surfski, oc1 and sup feel well for one's neck because they all replicate the posture that one brings from chairs and similar occupational postures. Take a deep, unbiased look at each discipline's posture.

In prone paddleboard positioning the spine is challenged to forcefully extend against gravity. If it's weak, the whole chest will lay on the board to rest. The head will need to be lifted, with a weak spine to stabilize, creating the above mentioned issues. In many cases, this is preventable. When bony spurs arise, it's over.

"Misery sticks"Prone paddleboards pale in comparison as misery artifacts to riding a time trial bike over 5 hours on aero bars.

May all be well and...pain less.

[Area 10]

If prone paddling and time trial cycling are so unpleasant to do, then why on earth do/did you guys do it? Couldn't you have saved yourself a lot of bother and expense, and just stayed at home and lowered your testicles sharply into a bucket full of rusty barbed wire?

[TeachSB]

Area 10. The answer is yes, but there are no trophies for best insertion of genetalia into a bucket of barbed wire.

[pdxmike]

Area 10. The answer is yes, but there are no trophies for best insertion of genetalia into a bucket of barbed wire.

But if you lower them into a bucket of ice water, there is atrophy.

[Area 10]

Area 10. The answer is yes, but there are no trophies for best insertion of genetalia into a bucket of barbed wire.

But if you lower them into a bucket of ice water, there is atrophy.

Ooh, that's clever. Bravo.

[headmount]

If prone paddling and time trial cycling are so unpleasant to do, then why on earth do/did you guys do it? Couldn't you have saved yourself a lot of bother and expense, and just stayed at home and lowered your testicles sharply into a bucket full of rusty barbed wire?

Area 10, A group of us started prone paddleboarding on Maui from Maliko Gulch in 1979 in order to stay in shape for surfing as we got "older".  I was 30, I know not too old but at that time it seemed like it could be the beginning of the big slide if we let it.  Prone paddle boarding seemed the answer and it did pan out well at first.  Summer swells are minimal here on Maui and to stay in shape for the real winter swells, we were fairly prepared for the surf season when it came.  I was also still traveling to Indonesia for surf.  The waves there were very demanding and critical so pre conditioning was a must.  The prone paddle boards were so fast compared to a surf board and catching glides in the open ocean for the first time was very thrilling.  It's all relative.

But by 1990 (40 yrs) I started to feel it.  All can't be blamed on prone paddleboarding.  A lifetime of heavy surf wipeouts along with a few hang gliding crashes probably contributed as well.  By '93 I quit.  My son had graduated from high school in '93. He had also been my main reason for staying with it since we did it together.  But he went off to college and devoted his complete focus into competitive swimming.  Without him the pain drove me away.  I went from 180 in 1993 to 220 in 2003 when I started proning again with a Vietnam Vet pal of mine.  I figured we had it down.  We would sit up and stretch our necks forward until they relaxed.  He'd tell me some horrible memory of his and then we'd continue... until I saw another pal glide by on a 12' SUP.  "I will never do this again.  I'm going to do that."  Those were my exact words.  Weight is back down after 13 yrs of SUP. 


So proning definitely set me up for SUP downwinders from Maliko but on the prone surfing front, I'm also done because of my neck.  I miss it but I think I had my share.  SUS in the past six years keeps me from feeling too blue about it.  Pic is 2003 at the end of prone era.  Note purple head rest pad.