Author Topic: Anyone have personal experience with 5.9 oz VS 8 oz Carbon of the same weaves?  (Read 3890 times)

SUPflorida

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Want to increase the strength on the bottom on next board without going overboard. Last one had one layer of carbon6?+ 2.3 oz glass.
One layered of 5.9 left me just a little softer than I would have preferred. Has anybody used both? What was your conclusion?

Dwight (DW)

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I'd probably do Innegra under the carbon for toughness.

I was given some heavier carbon (free) years ago. Tried it on a board. Way too heavy. Carbon feels like you're wetting out carpet sometimes.


Arany

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I am going to have carbon 6 oz and 2 glass 4oz botom

PonoBill

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8oz carbon is a bitch to work with, and you don't gain much with it. I assume you're talking flat weave. You can gain a surprising amount of stiffness with just spread carbon yarn oriented in the right direction. If you're looking for axial stiffness and you lay the carbon straight (not on a bias) then half of the carbon is doing almost nothing. If you're aiming for toughness and resistance to dings and penetration then you're barking up the wrong fiber.  DW's idea of innegra makes a lot more sense. A little tricky to use, never looks wet, but it's tough, light, doesn't suck up epoxy and not that tough to use as long as you don't try to sand it. The few times I've used it I made it the bottom layer to insure I didn't wind up with a fuzz ball. Well, actually the first time I didn't know what I was doing and made a huge mess.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SUPflorida

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Not flat weave but 2x2 Twill & 8HS Harness Satin. I'm having zero problems working with the 5.9 carbon twill. It makes traditional plain weave feel like a nightmare. What I am inquiring about is if any one has used both of these weight fabrics and if they found a noticeable improvement especially concerning the bump in weight. The 5.9 oz twill is $20 a yd, the 8 HS is $37 and change a yd. Another plus for the 8HS is suppose to be a much tighter weave per weight. The both drape beautifully and are designed for use with compound curves. What I have now works well, but could be better with a sight tweak. The eight ounce sounded like it might be the ticket. 2.1 oz heavier and a denser cloth.

magentawave

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I used 5.9 oz carbon for the deck patch on a board I built last year. The problem is it's thick and sucks up a ton of resin. I don't think I will ever use it again unless I bag it.


Want to increase the strength on the bottom on next board without going overboard. Last one had one layer of carbon6?+ 2.3 oz glass.
One layered of 5.9 left me just a little softer than I would have preferred. Has anybody used both? What was your conclusion?
Pluto Platter: 7-10 x 29.25 x 4.25 x 114.5 liters

supuk

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It all depends a little on you blank and the weight and quality of the foam. The best value carbon I can get is plain weave 225g which is saying 7.9oz it is lovely to work with.
On the foam I use I normally use ether the carbon + 4oz glass if I want light or carbon + 6oz if I want durable. My 14dw board I did with carbon + 6oz glass and glass deck and it is the stiffest dw board I have ever paddled of course I have a few little extra secret bits going on but even still it is crazy stiff, like I can bairly get any sings of flex with a full effort jump up and landing flat on it.

Yes there are better carbons out there but price can double or triple.

Weting out carbon fully and making sure you don't get dry spots is quite hard so using a wet out table with a plastic sheet helps a lot. To get the most in weigh saving you need to vac bag carbon however in de bulking it however will reduce skin thickness and therfore a little durability so that needs to be taken into account.

SUPflorida

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supuk...I have had no problem getting the carbon wetted out...without a wet out table. I backed into a better process if your not in a hurry.

First, I stopped using spackle...I use epoxy with a very high volume of glass bubbles for a sealer. Second, when I bought my resin I intended to go at it in the dead of summer (upper 90's to possibly low 100,s but ended up using it in 70-80 degree temps) extra slow hardner. While this takes a lot of baby sitting without a bag it also allow the resin to fully saturate the cloth and ample time to work any...dare I say all... excess resin out of the laminate...and while it can't compete with vacuum bagging it does give a nice tight laminate.

My originaly intent was to bag it, so I went with a higher viscosity resin, which in retrospect, if I used a faster hardner would have worked against me. The extra slow hardner combined with the higher viscosity resin worked in my favors again, as a lower vicosity resin would have drained out of the cloth at such long set times.

Because the surface is throughly sealed off with glass bubbles there is zero resin saturation into the foam, even when applying copious amounts of pressure to the squeegee. While it drags out the laminating process, it give by far the best hand wet layup I have experience without vacuum bagging. For reference...started using fiberglass in 1966 at the age of 12.

I ask what sound like remedial questions about composite on this forum from time to time to get other perspectives, despite doing this for literally 50 years. My motto is never stop learning...there are always new products coming out. And sometime you start off with one plan and it morphs into something...a entirely different combination of events that you never even considered before....one that turn out better than the accepted practice .. thanks to those that share ...and keep building...

supuk

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supuk...I have had no problem getting the carbon wetted out...without a wet out table. I backed into a better process if your not in a hurry.

First, I stopped using spackle...I use epoxy with a very high volume of glass bubbles for a sealer. Second, when I bought my resin I intended to go at it in the dead of summer (upper 90's to possibly low 100,s but ended up using it in 70-80 degree temps) extra slow hardner. While this takes a lot of baby sitting without a bag it also allow the resin to fully saturate the cloth and ample time to work any...dare I say all... excess resin out of the laminate...and while it can't compete with vacuum bagging it does give a nice tight laminate.

My originaly intent was to bag it, so I went with a higher viscosity resin, which in retrospect, if I used a faster hardner would have worked against me. The extra slow hardner combined with the higher viscosity resin worked in my favors again, as a lower vicosity resin would have drained out of the cloth at such long set times.

Because the surface is throughly sealed off with glass bubbles there is zero resin saturation into the foam, even when applying copious amounts of pressure to the squeegee. While it drags out the laminating process, it give by far the best hand wet layup I have experience without vacuum bagging. For reference...started using fiberglass in 1966 at the age of 12.

I ask what sound like remedial questions about composite on this forum from time to time to get other perspectives, despite doing this for literally 50 years. My motto is never stop learning...there are always new products coming out. And sometime you start off with one plan and it morphs into something...a entirely different combination of events that you never even considered before....one that turn out better than the accepted practice .. thanks to those that share ...and keep building...

Yes with a wet out table it's far easier I would never wet it out on a board is just too hard to be sure you have not got dry spots on the rails and it's so easy on a table. I'm always suffering with cooler temperatures than I would like if it's 60 here I'm lucky! But it does give me plenty of dime even with fast or quick kick

SUPflorida

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Have you used the table technique with Twill weave? Or just plain weave? The twill is so loose and shapeable.

With the need for floor space and table/plastic/rollers ....if I was going to go that far I would be nudged towards expending a little more effort and go ahead and bag it.

It has been my experience that pulling the right amount vacuum on a board with good peel ply and bleader cloth gives a private builder about as good a fiber/resin ratio as can practically be expected. A good wet layup can give give good results as well....just not as "good"'...all depends on how motivated you feel at the time.



supuk

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Yes however if I use twill I leave the plastic on it till I get it on the board as like you say it is very loose weave. If I don't bag I put my glass dry over the carbon and use it to soak up any excess out of the carbon and then use only as much resin as I need to fully wet it out.

SUPflorida

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Yes however if I use twill I leave the plastic on it till I get it on the board as like you say it is very loose weave. If I don't bag I put my glass dry over the carbon and use it to soak up any excess out of the carbon and then use only as much resin as I need to fully wet it out.

Leaving the plastic on would help...but I'm not sure if the cloth wouldn't still get pulled all out of shape when you tried to peel the plastic off the carbon while it was resin was still wet.

I too use the light glass on top of the carbon as a blotter. Plus the glass I use is only 2.3 oz so a much finer finish right from the get go...

supuk

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Seams to stay put for me. The 4oz cloth I use is a fine weave allso so like you say gives a nice Finnish for thinner hot coats. I like useing the carbon glass mix it gives the best of both worlds. I would lower the weight or change the carbon before the glass as that adds so much to the durability.

PonoBill

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I tend to use WCOS, Whatever Carbon is On Sale, which is usually 5.9oz plain weave. Whenever there's a sale on Uni I buy a bunch, but that's rare. I have a lot of trouble using a table with carbon. I've watched videos of people doing it many times, and I try to emulate them, but it never goes as smoothly. I HAVE found that for making complex parts, like airboxes for race cars, that laying out a big piece of carbon on the table, wetting it out and squeegeeing, then using patters to cut the shapes with a round-tip razor that I avoind the unraveling edge problem, which is a common carbon issue for me. Haven't applied that to boards yet, but I plan to do that for the foils I'm designing.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Dwight (DW)

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Bill,

You're suppose to apply masking tape to carbon. Cut down middle of tape. Stops it from falling apart. Works better than hair spray trick.

 


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