allstar flex - real or BS?

[UKRiverSurfers]

Yes i think if the board was more firmly held in the water torsion would be more of a factor but with the shape of a race board hull and its ability to roll on so many axis any force will just get translated in to movement in the water. It would be very easy to test and maybe something i will try to do. The wider and flatter and thinner a board is the more it will be a factor for sure

Video test of some sort?

[UKRiverSurfers]

As for Starboard, they are the masters of hype.  Their board construction is very little different then every other Cobra produced board.

You have some facts to backup that claim baddog? Are you suggesting that every Cobra built production board is identical in construction? Really??

I reckon so. Just a different point job.

[yugi]

I just know that when things get messy - waist to chest high confused nasty seas, a flexi board is harder to stay on.

For eg, a small ripple within a face of a chop, will not exist to a rigid board. A flexible board may well 'feel' the small ripple, and then show it up in the directional stability of the board.

What defines a "flexi board" in your opinion. What you believe to be too much flex might be just right for someone else, and they might well believe that it's easier to stay on a board in "nasty seas" because said person may be less fatigued over time. Definitely multiple trains of though on this, with no substantial absolutes. 99% subjective, opinion based analysis.

I guess - any flex that i can feel. I like a solid feel to my paddle craft. Rigid. Of course 'rigid' will still have some sort of flex. But to me - if i can feel loads of flex, Im not keen

^^^ Most people reacted the same way to the 2014 Naish 14’ Jav (pretty flexy). It did feel different in chop and especially upwind but I couldn’t really fault it for having anything to do with slowing me down. I couldn’t think of a rational reason it’d be slowing me down. Tried to think of a few reasons why the flex could work for you but figured I was just being optimistic (no, I’m not in Marketing!). Just just ignored all the its-not-rigid whining.

So it’s fun to see the flex becoming hyped up. Yes, of course I think Starboard is hyping it. I think: hey, maybe there are some upsides. The flex is definitely from super light construction but maybe we’re just becoming OK that it wasn’t all that bad. Did Starboard “tune it”? Sure. They probably stiffened it up a bit for this year (sounds like it from feedback). So that’s tuning it, isn’t it?

[yugi]

But I’m the kind of guy who just see’s all the upsides when I see a flexy bike like these…

[comeu]

Thank you Yugi for the link, it's great to see that more than 1 century after the first bikes people still innovate.
About SB, I haven't ride any of their boards, I don't see many here in Japan but I can say I'm not convinced by selling points such as referring to ocean creatures flex neither by their stupid video about carbon sandwiches. Shame to make great products and not being able to promote it.
I prefer to give my cash to guys who ride their boards and use paddles they designed

[PonoBill]

The Trocadero looks like a good way to get a raspberry on your kisser.

[Eagle]

That bike looks like a disaster in the making.  The front wheel must be kept pretty close to vertical otherwise you are looking at some serious bodily damage.  Any sharp corners at speed look like major road rash - since lean cannot be incorporated to offset the heavy G forces.  The mountain - downhill - road bikes - and motorcycle - all have been pretty much sussed out and work just fine.

[ukgm]

I have a 2016 14x25 allstar. I love it. However one question I have is about the flex. Their marketing language states:

"Like most creatures in the ocean, Starboards race boards have noticeable flex, thus utlising the energy generated from the body moving up and down during paddle strokes."

What do you guys think? Does the flex actually generate forward speed, or is this just marketing BS to to explain a lack of stiffness in their boards? Everything I know from other paddle sports suggests that a stiff hull has better acceleration and responsiveness. I have tried accentuating the hop in my stroke to see what happens on this board. I think hopping might help me in acceleration from a standstill. Might. It is a somewhat effective technique to blast people off my side wash as it generates huge waves moving sideways from the hull. For what its worth mine is the fiberglass hybrid; my buddy's 23" carbon sandwhich by comparison has much much more flex. Not sure if that is from the change in width or the change in material.

If the flex cannot have its resultant direction known (and going by their illustration of up and down to then go forwards is certainly not realistic), it's not going to help and if anything will waste energy. You can't just bounce and down and expect it to drive you forwards unless you know where all your forces and movements are acting. Its not the same as pumping a board down a wave. The resulting forces could just as easily compress the board downwards, increase its wetted surface and slow you down instead. However, if the point were to reduce fatigue (by incorporating some degree of compliance and vibration absorption), that is entirely possible..... but that's not what they are claiming.

As with all of these things for me, show me the numbers.

[SUPflorida]

If they can't capture and control the direction of the energy created by the "bounce", hypothetically the energy could just as easily be released in a way to slow forward motion or even generate a reverse motion.

Maybe next they will putting a hinged flap on the bottom that arrests the bounce motion to keep the board from backing up.🙄

[starman]

As with all of these things for me, show me the numbers.

Does this help to dispel the doubt?

https://www.facebook.com/goSUPracer/videos/vb.152153771535349/1031030996980951/?type=2&theater

If they can't capture and control the direction of the energy created by the "bounce", hypothetically the energy could just as easily be released in a way to slow forward motion or even generate a reverse motion.

Maybe next they will putting a hinged flap on the bottom that arrests the bounce motion to keep the board from backing up.🙄

I believe the deep concave in the tail performs this job quite well.

[zachhandler]

Starman - if the concave tail indeed causes water to displace aft rather than fore, we should be able to test it.

I will stand at the balance point of my 2016 and bounce. Then i will do the same on a 2015 that lacks the concave tail, and compare the results.

My prediction is that neither board moves much, and they are about equal. I am happy to be wrong however. I will report back when the get a chance to do the experiment.

[Area 10]

As with all of these things for me, show me the numbers.

Does this help to dispel the doubt?

https://www.facebook.com/goSUPracer/videos/vb.152153771535349/1031030996980951/?type=2&theater

I don't quite see how they video is relevant, since Connor wasn't using an All Star in that race, and this thread is about the All Star. ?

[SUPflorida]

Please explain how you think a deep concave in the tail has anyway of capturing the energy from a vertical bounce to producing forward thrust? ...unless you are talking about the tail (transom) itself  being submerged two or more inches underwater ... At that point dragging a sunken tail kills glide...so I'm interested to know how you explain that away.... and what about the concave in the bottom forward of the standing area? Is that generating a force in the opposite direction? Case dismissed 🤔

[zachhandler]

Starman's theory is plausable. Ever stand on the gunnels of a canoe towards the stern and bounce up and down? You can get across a lake like that and it is suprisingly quick. Maybe 2 mph or so. I just think the theory needs to be tested.

[ukgm]

As with all of these things for me, show me the numbers.

Does this help to dispel the doubt?

https://www.facebook.com/goSUPracer/videos/vb.152153771535349/1031030996980951/?type=2&theater

If they can't capture and control the direction of the energy created by the "bounce", hypothetically the energy could just as easily be released in a way to slow forward motion or even generate a reverse motion.

Maybe next they will putting a hinged flap on the bottom that arrests the bounce motion to keep the board from backing up.🙄

I believe the deep concave in the tail performs this job quite well.

Nope. Connor would make a board bounce like that no matter what he was riding. His paddling style dictates it.