Author Topic: How many members of this forum are women?  (Read 38627 times)

spirit4earth

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #120 on: May 25, 2016, 02:21:14 PM »
What you’re describing sounds demeaning to women. Giving them their own sections on the Zone were men cannot or should not post. “to compensate for the offensiveness of the prono thread” Seriously, as if women are some kind of defenseless gender that need protection or filter from a men’s dominate website. We are all stand up paddlers here, forget gender. Your intentions may be good, but it’s wrong.
I agree with spirit4 earth. Why don't you ask the women? Even if the answer is "no" the act of asking might go some way towards recompense for the boorish behavior elsewhere on the forum. There's no way that asking is going to be anything like as "demeaning" as the porno thread, and I very much doubt that it would be seen like that anyway. There are sections of the forum for groups of people who live in different areas, so why not sections for people of differing gender?

If spirit4earth had had a section that she could post to in order to contact other women specifically, her question that prompted this thread would not have turned into such a vitriolic display of defensive chest-beating, dominated by men (ironically), and perhaps she would have actually got some replies from other women.

But really, making any kind of further discussion is pointless here. You aren't going to change your minds, and I'm certainly not going to be convinced that the porno thread is a good thing or reflects well on the SUP community as a whole.

To a certain extent, Quickbeam may be right in opening up the question of cultural differences. The opinions of several of the contributors to this discussion who are overwhelmingly US (of course), seem rather extreme by European standards. This may be why we are having such difficulty appreciating each others' position. And please don't take offence at this - I'm not saying one is right or wrong, I'm just trying to find out why two groups of people who have so much in common otherwise, can hold views that are so different to each other. There is a whole potential discussion to be had about the success and failure of feminism in different environments, and current views of what it means to be a man, especially the recent infantilisation of masculinity.  But it's clear that this is not the place to be having discussions like that, so I'll spare you, and I'm sure you will be very pleased that I did.

Well said.

TallDude

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #121 on: May 25, 2016, 02:24:05 PM »
From my very small 'emotional solution finding box' I would suggest a 'Women's Paddle Zone' category. A place of general discussion of all things women who love to paddle.
Paddle clothing, workouts, waterproof make-up, cute hats, cute boards, cute paddles, and the problem with men.
I will go there as often as I have lunch with my wife and her friends.
It's not overhead to me!
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spirit4earth

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #122 on: May 25, 2016, 02:42:34 PM »
From my very small 'emotional solution finding box' I would suggest a 'Women's Paddle Zone' category. A place of general discussion of all things women who love to paddle.
Paddle clothing, workouts, waterproof make-up, cute hats, cute boards, cute paddles, and the problem with men.
I will go there as often as I have lunch with my wife and her friends.

I say let's try it.  It might fail or take a while to get hits, but it won't hurt anything to give it a try.  Put it near the top, spread the word, and who knows??

PonoBill

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #123 on: May 25, 2016, 02:44:13 PM »
What you’re describing sounds demeaning to women. Giving them their own sections on the Zone were men cannot or should not post. “to compensate for the offensiveness of the prono thread” Seriously, as if women are some kind of defenseless gender that need protection or filter from a men’s dominate website. We are all stand up paddlers here, forget gender. Your intentions may be good, but it’s wrong.

I don't think it's demeaning, but I'm not sure how it would work out.  Some other forums have specific "women" threads, and it makes sense there.  On a gun forum, there might be woman-specific holsters, etc.   and members can share info about that.   On a SUP forum it might be wetsuits, flotation vests, etc. 
It would be irrelevant to the HC thread, at any rate.  It might be worth a try?

Sounds good to me, why wouldn't we. I suspect it will be a bit echo-y in those big silent halls of bits and bytes, but the rent is low, so why not. Let me know how it goes, I'm not going to do some kind of transgender bathroom stuff to try to get in there. But if pictures of me in a speedo get posted I want a photo credit.
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SeaMe

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #124 on: May 25, 2016, 03:26:29 PM »
If someone posts their photograph directly to the thread, that's their business.  If they post it to the "INTERNET", that doesn't mean it has to be reposted here.


^^^This.^^^ +1
There seems to be a huge disconnect between two sides as to what constitutes appropriate content for a SUP forum.


It's clear that Admin and a few others are unyielding on this issue, so let's just drop it.  Keep it LCD if you want to.  Everything that's on that thread reflects on the posters and the viewers.

Both sides appear to be going around in circles at this point so it probably will die down, but given time it will come up again, and again. But it's like you say, the lowest-common-denominator behavior doesn't reflect poorly on the people saying take it down.


There ya go, just ignore it. ;)

Ignore problems, a perfect approach. What could possibly go wrong? Try ignoring an oddly shaped and colored spot that suddenly appears on your skin after years of sun exposure. Let me know how that turns out in the long run.


What you’re describing sounds demeaning to women. Giving them their own sections on the Zone were men cannot or should not post. “to compensate for the offensiveness of the prono thread” Seriously, as if women are some kind of defenseless gender that need protection or filter from a men’s dominate website. We are all stand up paddlers here, forget gender. Your intentions may be good, but it’s wrong.

I think Area 10's heart is in the right place, but I don't think a "Ladies" subforum addresses the problem at its core. I'm not opposed to it though if other women want it.

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spirit4earth

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #125 on: May 25, 2016, 03:44:31 PM »


I think Area 10's heart is in the right place, but I don't think a "Ladies" subforum addresses the problem at its core. I'm not opposed to it though if other women want it.

I agree with all that you wrote.  This is true----the problem still exists, with or without a women's subforum.  The core issues that need to be addressed and changed won't be changed on this forum.  They are widespread, and as we've seen, deeply imbedded.

Area 10

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #126 on: May 25, 2016, 03:45:11 PM »
SeaMe - I agree entirely that it doesn't address the problem at it's core at all. But it's clear that what you'd want is not going to happen, as spirit4earth says. So maybe the best that can actually be achieved is that women who want to discuss SUP with other women (if they don't locally already through eg. FB pages) can do so without having to deal with the kinds of behaviour we have seen here. At least that would be some kind of incremental progress in some kinda way. Who knows, if it became popular it could attract a whole new range of site sponsors and Admin could then praise his business acumen, marketing awareness, and contribution to diversity ;)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 03:47:34 PM by Area 10 »

clay

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #127 on: May 25, 2016, 03:47:53 PM »
It seems to me that we all want the same thing, to have fun and feel good and feel welcome (and hopefully get barreled)  ;D

Sounds like the common ground is we all care about this forum and feel strongly about our opinions and values.  We are all on the same team.

Maybe a solution for all threads is before posting to take a few deep breaths,  and ask how might my brother and sister Zoners feel when they read this?
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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magentawave

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #128 on: May 26, 2016, 10:22:53 AM »

There ya go, just ignore it. ;)

Ignore problems, a perfect approach. What could possibly go wrong? Try ignoring an oddly shaped and colored spot that suddenly appears on your skin after years of sun exposure. Let me know how that turns out in the long run.

Comparing pictures of bikini clad CONSENTING ADULT women who CHOOSE to have their photo's posted on the internet and ignoring possible skin cancer is whatcha call a logical fallacy.

The "hot chicks" thread is a "problem" only because YOU CHOOSE to make it a problem.

The owner of this forum is okay with it as long as they aren't naked.

With all due respect, I suggest you stop trying to control others and focus your energy on REAL problems. :)
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spirit4earth

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #129 on: May 26, 2016, 10:34:30 AM »

There ya go, just ignore it. ;)

Ignore problems, a perfect approach. What could possibly go wrong? Try ignoring an oddly shaped and colored spot that suddenly appears on your skin after years of sun exposure. Let me know how that turns out in the long run.

Comparing pictures of bikini clad CONSENTING ADULT women who CHOOSE to have their photo's posted on the internet and ignoring possible skin cancer is whatcha call a logical fallacy.

The "hot chicks" thread is a "problem" only because YOU CHOOSE to make it a problem.

The owner of this forum is okay with it as long as they aren't naked.

With all due respect, I suggest you stop trying to control others and focus your energy on REAL problems. :)

The discussion about the HC thread seems to have no end.  Each response elicits another response, and sometimes rightly so.  As stated many times, if consenting adults want to post pictures of themselves on the internet, that's their choice.  Yes, everything on the internet is fair game, and a lot of fools have no concept of privacy, or subtlety, anymore.  The point is simply that maybe those pictures shouldn't be REPOSTED on this forum.  Get your soft porn elsewhere.
The forum may have an "owner", but the forum actually consists of its members.  The question is, what kind of member do you want to be?

PDLSFR

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #130 on: May 26, 2016, 10:36:14 AM »
OMG this thread has gotten way out of hand, seriously how about we get back to talking about boards, paddles, waves, and skip all this Bulls**t already !!

We are mostly all grownups here, if there is a thread your not interested in then skip it and move onto one that peaks your interest plain and simple, if your offended by whats on the site then leave and don't let the paddle hit you in ass on the way out.
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magentawave

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #131 on: May 26, 2016, 10:51:51 AM »
...if there is a thread your not interested in then skip it and move onto one that peaks your interest plain and simple, if your offended by whats on the site then leave and don't let the paddle hit you in ass on the way out.

YES!





There ya go, just ignore it. ;)

Ignore problems, a perfect approach. What could possibly go wrong? Try ignoring an oddly shaped and colored spot that suddenly appears on your skin after years of sun exposure. Let me know how that turns out in the long run.

Comparing pictures of bikini clad CONSENTING ADULT women who CHOOSE to have their photo's posted on the internet and ignoring possible skin cancer is whatcha call a logical fallacy.

The "hot chicks" thread is a "problem" only because YOU CHOOSE to make it a problem.

The owner of this forum is okay with it as long as they aren't naked.

With all due respect, I suggest you stop trying to control others and focus your energy on REAL problems. :)

The discussion about the HC thread seems to have no end.  Each response elicits another response, and sometimes rightly so.  As stated many times, if consenting adults want to post pictures of themselves on the internet, that's their choice.  Yes, everything on the internet is fair game, and a lot of fools have no concept of privacy, or subtlety, anymore.  The point is simply that maybe those pictures shouldn't be REPOSTED on this forum.  Get your soft porn elsewhere.
The forum may have an "owner", but the forum actually consists of its members.  The question is, what kind of member do you want to be?

I'm the "kind of member" that reads threads that interest me while IGNORING threads that don't interest me. You know, live and let live. No victim = no crime.
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raf

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #132 on: May 26, 2016, 11:51:11 AM »
I'd like to add my voice to the notion that the HCOSTU thread is an embarrassment to an otherwise great public forum.  I posted to that effect a long while back and was told to ignore it or leave and "ra-ra censorship " etc.  I don't think advocating for it to be taken down is disputing anyone else's right to post offensive content.  We are simply pointing out that it is offensive, and that the primary mission of the site would benefit from it being gone. 
I dispute that it is only a very small fraction of the forum users that think the thread should go.  It seems to me there are actually a bunch of us.  I wouldn't have posted on this at all if I hadn't read more than once that there are just a few of us. 
It also strikes me that the arguments for taking it down are more thoughtful and well-articulated than those for leaving it up, regardless of the actual content of the argument.
I used to be a site sponsor, and although there were other factors at play in my decision not to renew my sponsorship, one of the reasons was that I didn't want to be seen as promoting the views and ideas exemplified by the HCOSTU thread. 
Also, as a heads up to anyone who doesn't know this: there is a LOT of FREE porn on the internet thats even better than the stuff on HCOSTU thread.

PonoBill

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #133 on: May 26, 2016, 12:38:43 PM »
It also strikes me that the arguments for taking it down are more thoughtful and well-articulated than those for leaving it up, regardless of the actual content of the argument.
I used to be a site sponsor, and although there were other factors at play in my decision not to renew my sponsorship, one of the reasons was that I didn't want to be seen as promoting the views and ideas exemplified by the HCOSTU thread.

Could that possibly be because they agree with you?

My perception is exactly the opposite. For example, the logic of your first paragraph is almost incomprehensible. The second paragraph isn't much better. How many in a bunch? Ten? Three Brazilian?

Besides the simple fact that labeling women in bikinis as porn is laughable, and the reposting issue is nonsense that no one buys, the issue for those opposed to deletion is not that they love the content, and can't wait to leer at the next photo posted, but simply that they don't like someone else attempting to dictate what should and should not be on this site. The effective guidelines for the content are ten huge steps back from what is permissible in our society. You can and do find more salacious content in any woman's magazine in any grocery store in any country except theocracies. That level of social acceptability should be all that's necessary as a guideline. Going further than that is clearly personal opinion driving censorship. It's fine if you own the venue--you can do what you want. the same as you do with your own body, your own home, your own stuff. Make whatever choices you like. But when you extend that to what other people do you can expect resistance.

There could be a reasonable case made to eliminate the thread(forum) as a defined entity that encourages participation and instead have such content show up wherever it happens to be relevant (or irrelevant). But none of you have made that argument. Instead you have tried to force your will on other people and apply your standards. It's a poor argument that you deserved to lose.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 12:41:50 PM by PonoBill »
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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #134 on: May 26, 2016, 04:55:54 PM »
Also, as a heads up to anyone who doesn't know this: there is a LOT of FREE porn on the internet thats even better than the stuff on HCOSTU thread.

Raf,

Most of the content on the Hot Chicks thread is SUP Manufacturer content (ads, images, and videos that SUP brands have produced).  The brands produce this content with the intention that it will appeal to bloggers, social media site users, forum users, etc and that the content will be shared.

These brands are also sold in most surf shops (yours?), and are advertisers in and on all SUP media venues (including this one).

Your projection that this content is porn, soft porn (or even racy) or that the resulting comments dip below an internet hubba hubba makes no sense in any context.



 


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