Author Topic: How many members of this forum are women?  (Read 38625 times)

PonoBill

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #105 on: May 25, 2016, 08:06:52 AM »
That's higher than normal for special interest online forums and participation in open response venues like comment areas for blogs or media sharing and news sites. The issue of female participation has long been of marketing interest. Women make up the majority for purchasers in a big spectrum of product categories but can be hard to reach and challenging to interact with. In general knowledge sites like Wikipedia women provide less than 15 percent of the content and less than 10 percent of the editing and correction. It's not because of the Hot Chick On Wikipedia" page. It's because they don't have interest in participating. If that seems tautological you must never have dated. 

Even in controlled social environments like Facebook where female participation outstrips men substantially, the comments made to posts that show up in newsfeeds are less than 15% females. Comment blocks are like forums writ small.  This is kind of an old article, but it has some useful insights: http://www.forbes.com/2010/04/26/popular-social-networking-sites-forbes-woman-time-facebook-twitter.html

Women use web media differently than men. Expecting participation to change because we do something differently in this forum ignores that simple reality. Reminds me of some bald geezer thinking a combover is going to make him more attractive. Nothing will make you attractive when you are of no interest.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 08:09:05 AM by PonoBill »
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Quickbeam

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #106 on: May 25, 2016, 08:07:58 AM »
Given the comments from the Admin. this morning, it looks like the hot chicks thread is here to stay. To me this is a mistake and not very forward thinking, but then I’m not the Admin.

I said to someone else just this morning, and I’ll repeat it here. Sometimes I just don’t get Americans. And sorry to lump everyone into one category. I know I shouldn’t do that. But you know it wasn’t all that long ago that Janet Jackson had her famous “nipple slip” at the Super Bowl. There was this huge outcry in the States. To me it was like ‘who cares’. Just not a big deal. But now we have the hot chicks thread on the Zone, which to my way of thinking is a whole lot worse than Janet’s nipple, and people fight to defend it.

You know you shouldn't, and still you did. Makes for a strong argument. Are you really so unsophisticated that you don't understand a media storm vs. anyone actually giving a rats ass about Janet Jackson?

We're not really talking about Americans and their wacky version of morals anyway, we're talking about a forum on the internet. But good on you for making it all about that, when what it really is, is a difference of opinion.


What I do understand, very clearly, is that for a media storm to exist there needs to be public interest. Are you that unsophisticated that you don’t believe a whole lot of people in the States weren’t upset over the Janet Jackson “incident”?

And of course it’s a difference of opinion. Some of that difference however is obviously about morals.

You know, everything else aside, I just think it’s sad that a forum that has so much to offer has members who are doing everything they can to hang onto something that to me, seems so out of place here. And yes, I said to me. But as others here are, I also am entitled to my opinion.

Wow, you really don't get it. No, there is absolutely no need for interest by the public for the media to flog the hell out of a story. Media and Celebrity provide positive feedback loops. Media outlet A covers something, so then B does. Since A and B think it's important then C does. Wow, A, B and C. Must be a big deal so DEF through Z.  At no time does public interest enter into the storm. There's no way for public interest to influence media coverage--it happens too fast, the cycles are too short, and no one in the media gives a rip about public interest anyway. Flog it hard enough and advertisers will pay for it. Send a "reporter" out with a mic and interview enough people until you get some idiot to say something really stupid. It's like every "man in the street" interview ever created. Air the responses that support the story you want to create. Anyone that says something intelligent is cut.

That's why politicians watch news cycles. How PR guys like me manipulate reporters and media outlets. Sheesh, even little kids know that.

As for morals, couching your opinion as a superior moral stance is just arrogance. There are more than a few people in the world that consider what you believe to be moral qualifies you to be terminated with prejudice. Your vision of morality is just somewhere along that spectrum, and I have no more interest in it than I do some fundamentalist whackdoodle who believes in invisible men who would be thrilled to whack your and my heads off.


O.K., this will be my last post on this issue.

Earlier in this discussion I mentioned the Janet Jackson ‘nipple slip’ as part of an observation. I also however used a generalization I should not have used, because I admit it is not fair to generalize about an entire population. I was wrong to do that and if that generalization offended anyone, then I apologize. I also understand that media can certainly create and manipulate stories. But if you’re saying that there was no public interest or the public was not upset, most especially members of the American public, over the Janet Jackson issue, then I think you are flat out wrong. My opinion.

I’ve said throughout this discussion that I don’t like some of the postings and comments in the hot chicks thread and I don’t think that thread belongs in this forum. I would have no issue with the hot chicks thread if it really was about hot chicks on paddle boards. But when people post pictures of chubby women to ridicule, and when people post crotch shots, and when people post full frontal nudity then I think it goes too far. For me, and in my opinion, it just makes this forum less than it could be.

As for morals, I never said my opinion was a “superior moral stance”. Those sir are your words, not mine. In response to one of your comments, I did say that some of the difference of opinion was about morals. Never once talked about anyone’s morals being superior. Never once in this entire discussion have I talked about superiority in any fashion.

But since you brought the issue up, I’ll address it. We all have our own moral compass and hopefully we are guided by it. If people post pictures of chubby women, if they post crotch shots and if they post full frontal nudity and that fits with their moral compass then I guess that’s up to them. It’s just not something I would do. Does that make one “superior” to the other as you seem to want to define it? I can only say I’ve never considered myself superior to anyone. I suppose it really just makes us different.
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PonoBill

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #107 on: May 25, 2016, 08:13:33 AM »
And of course it’s a difference of opinion. Some of that difference however is obviously about morals.

You were perhaps inferring that yours were more lax?

« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 08:29:17 AM by PonoBill »
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Admin

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #108 on: May 25, 2016, 08:31:41 AM »
Quote
I would have no issue with the hot chicks thread if it really was about hot chicks on paddle boards. But when people post pictures of chubby women to ridicule, and when people post crotch shots, and when people post full frontal nudity then I think it goes too far. For me, and in my opinion, it just makes this forum less than it could be.

As I noted earlier on the hot chicks thread, the "crotch shots" that you are referring to were posted by the subjects themselves.  They like the photos that offend you and they wanted to share them with the world. They each have hundreds of thousands of followers (most of them other women) who also like them. 

https://twitter.com/claudiaromani?lang=en
https://www.instagram.com/claudia_romani/?hl=en
https://www.instagram.com/p/9w9eibEoJE/

In regards to the "chubby" issue that you mentioned, we left that one (also published by the woman herself, Amy Schumer) because this is actually her issue (along with Serena Williams below).  She is putting herself forward to raise this very discussion.  We dig what they are doing there. 

In regards to the (one) nude shot that had been posted, it was removed.  That is where we have decided to draw the line.  We currently have two members that are irritated with us because we have asked them not to post nude photos of their wives.  This is not a one side issue. 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 08:51:06 AM by Admin »

spirit4earth

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #109 on: May 25, 2016, 08:46:43 AM »
If someone posts their photograph directly to the thread, that's their business.  If they post it to the "INTERNET", that doesn't mean it has to be reposted here. 
It's clear that Admin and a few others are unyielding on this issue, so let's just drop it.  Keep it LCD if you want to.  Everything that's on that thread reflects on the posters and the viewers.

magentawave

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #110 on: May 25, 2016, 08:52:33 AM »
If someone posts their photograph directly to the thread, that's their business.  If they post it to the "INTERNET", that doesn't mean it has to be reposted here. 
It's clear that Admin and a few others are unyielding on this issue, so let's just drop it.  Keep it LCD if you want to.  Everything that's on that thread reflects on the posters and the viewers.

There ya go, just ignore it. ;)
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Area 10

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #111 on: May 25, 2016, 09:05:37 AM »
Women use web media differently than men. Expecting participation to change because we do something differently in this forum ignores that simple reality.
Overwhelmingly, the internet contains content and formats that have been created by men, and are dominated by them. This may be the reason behind the differences in use and interest. You don't know if things would change if we did it differently, and you never will because you are not willing to try. If we had a section specifically for women it would have no cost attached to it, it wouldn't affect you in any way, and although it might not be popular it just might be. And it would show willing, and compensate in some small way for the offensiveness of the "porno thread".

PonoBill

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #112 on: May 25, 2016, 09:31:56 AM »
That's not just ridiculous, it's demonstrably untrue. The internet is female. Men play a rapidly diminishing role in it, with any male majority confined to relatively few places. Facebook has more than 100 million more female visitors per month than men. Arguably more since Facebook is 76 percent women and gets 1.09 billion logins per month (280 million more women than men). But it's also 66 percent male, which confuses me a bit (but which yields 109 million more women than men) .

I still pay a lot of attention to internet marketing. All the money is in marketing to women.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 09:46:13 AM by PonoBill »
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headmount

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #113 on: May 25, 2016, 09:39:13 AM »
Exactly.  Women don't care what we think.  They care what other women think.   They dress and undress for each other and we have no part in the equation.  Men are meaningless.  This thread is funny as in strange.

spirit4earth

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #114 on: May 25, 2016, 10:27:44 AM »
Women use web media differently than men. Expecting participation to change because we do something differently in this forum ignores that simple reality.
Overwhelmingly, the internet contains content and formats that have been created by men, and are dominated by them. This may be the reason behind the differences in use and interest. You don't know if things would change if we did it differently, and you never will because you are not willing to try. If we had a section specifically for women it would have no cost attached to it, it wouldn't affect you in any way, and although it might not be popular it just might be. And it would show willing, and compensate in some small way for the offensiveness of the "porno thread".

Right.

Chilly

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #115 on: May 25, 2016, 11:32:31 AM »
What you’re describing sounds demeaning to women. Giving them their own sections on the Zone were men cannot or should not post. “to compensate for the offensiveness of the prono thread” Seriously, as if women are some kind of defenseless gender that need protection or filter from a men’s dominate website. We are all stand up paddlers here, forget gender. Your intentions may be good, but it’s wrong.
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PonoBill

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #116 on: May 25, 2016, 11:45:25 AM »
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women…”
Sheikh Salman al-Oadah
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spirit4earth

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #117 on: May 25, 2016, 01:38:56 PM »
What you’re describing sounds demeaning to women. Giving them their own sections on the Zone were men cannot or should not post. “to compensate for the offensiveness of the prono thread” Seriously, as if women are some kind of defenseless gender that need protection or filter from a men’s dominate website. We are all stand up paddlers here, forget gender. Your intentions may be good, but it’s wrong.

I don't think it's demeaning, but I'm not sure how it would work out.  Some other forums have specific "women" threads, and it makes sense there.  On a gun forum, there might be woman-specific holsters, etc.   and members can share info about that.   On a SUP forum it might be wetsuits, flotation vests, etc. 
It would be irrelevant to the HC thread, at any rate.  It might be worth a try?

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #118 on: May 25, 2016, 01:45:06 PM »
What you’re describing sounds demeaning to women. Giving them their own sections on the Zone were men cannot or should not post. “to compensate for the offensiveness of the prono thread” Seriously, as if women are some kind of defenseless gender that need protection or filter from a men’s dominate website. We are all stand up paddlers here, forget gender. Your intentions may be good, but it’s wrong.
I agree with spirit4 earth. Why don't you ask the women? Even if the answer is "no" the act of asking might go some way towards recompense for the boorish behavior elsewhere on the forum. There's no way that asking is going to be anything like as "demeaning" as the porno thread, and I very much doubt that it would be seen like that anyway. There are sections of the forum for groups of people who live in different areas, so why not sections for people of differing gender?

If spirit4earth had had a section that she could post to in order to contact other women specifically, her question that prompted this thread would not have turned into such a vitriolic display of defensive chest-beating, dominated by men (ironically), and perhaps she would have actually got some replies from other women.

But really, making any kind of further discussion is pointless here. You aren't going to change your minds, and I'm certainly not going to be convinced that the porno thread is a good thing or reflects well on the SUP community as a whole.

To a certain extent, Quickbeam may be right in opening up the question of cultural differences. The opinions of several of the contributors to this discussion who are overwhelmingly US (of course), seem rather extreme by European standards. This may be why we are having such difficulty appreciating each others' position. And please don't take offence at this - I'm not saying one is right or wrong, I'm just trying to find out why two groups of people who have so much in common otherwise, can hold views that are so different to each other. There is a whole potential discussion to be had about the success and failure of feminism in different environments, and current views of what it means to be a man, especially the recent infantilisation of masculinity.  But it's clear that this is not the place to be having discussions like that, so I'll spare you, and I'm sure you will be very pleased that I did.

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Re: How many members of this forum are women?
« Reply #119 on: May 25, 2016, 02:02:03 PM »
This guy explains it well in a Carlinesk manner.  This is funny as in laughing type.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BxckAMaTDc

 


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