How many members of this forum are women?

[eastbound]

“And you're right. I'd like my granddaughter to see the zone as a great place to find women she can emulate rather than pictures that bring question to her value because she may not have a certain bodyshape.”

+1, along with the many other good reasons that this thread shouldn't be here.

[all~wet]

I don't think it a coincidence that where Admin chose to draw the line in that thread was right in line with where our society has chosen to in public exposure. The internet- this forum are essentially a microcosm of society- you are likely to run across the full spectrum of people/behavior- probably won't see or hear anything more or less ignorant or inappropriate than you would spending a day at the beach, to disagree or be offended. We all ought to be entitled, even encouraged to express such!

Through open dialog/expression/discussion, inevitably things tend to find an equilibrium- the outrageous to be checked by the reasonable majority. In essence- it is a negotiation and as such, done properly, the end result is all parties leaving satisfied being slightly dissatisfied. 

I happen to think the majority of people, likely even more so here are decent people. I doubt Admin needs to take down the thread as I would like to think that with an inevitable exception- through this discussion, people will tend to be more mindful of what they post. Of course- to think one can go anywhere in public or on here- whether it be that thread or one about equipment choices and not be offended is unrealistic. It is at that point ones ability to express themselves- let someone know they are acting like an idiot comes in handy. Cheers.

[goodfornothin]

Kinda sad a dude gets judged on a few sentences.  Stone raised a family and is still there,,judge him on that,,not some bullshit thoughts on a stupid forum.  Or judge him on his surfing,,,hahah,,,he probably rips over 90% of the people here.

Here's a thought,,,,talking and reading about sup'ing every minute gets really fucking boring.  Its a community,,,things get talked about.  If you cant take the superficiality that the internet represents,,then simply dont  click it.   The woman are sef promoting through body image,,,everywhere.  Lets talk about that.  90% of the roxy video or the one prior was ass,,,5% lifestyle and 5% surfing.   Testerone will respond to estrogen,,,,everytime,,,nature wins.  Medianandnconsumerism depend on it. 

Start a dudes on paddle boards and have at it.  Problem solved

[Area 10]

I suspect that the reason that thread will remain no matter how compelling the arguments are for it disappearing is that this website makes money for the people who run it. It must be worth a tidy sum. And since website income is related to number of visits, and that thread is the most enduring of all, Admin etc will want to keep it. It's just about the money.

[magentawave]

Hey, I have a novel solution for anyone that doesn't like the HOT CHICKS thread... 

Ignore it.

[Califoilia]

I'm still trying to figure out how on the one hand Kim Kardashian breaks the internet....with primarily women being interested in WTF she is doing is OK but a guy posts a picture of a woman and he is to be vilified. Why the double standard?

No double standard at all Stoney.  If a person wishes to post a pic of themselves, and/or their significant other, that's fine....they know perfectly well that they are then open to whatever comments will come of it (or at least they should be).

That's a big difference than some of the less than complimentary in nature (to say the least) or in let's just say an "unflattering", or "compromising" position that gets snapped of them (and more than likely without their knowledge of it)....that then gets thrown up on a website sight for ridicule, and in some instances, just completely acceptably crude, and disgusting comments.

My wife has attempted the sport on occasion, and I know she's found herself in some less than desirable positions.  I'm just grateful that I've yet to see one of them up on a website somewhere....not to mention, I'm not sure the lengths I'd go to search out a scumbag who thought it his place, or right to post some disgusting remark about her, or the unbecoming pose she might have found herself wound up in.

If I had daughters instead of two boys, I can't say for sure, but I'm betting my reaction(s), and search for said douchbag commentator would only be more intensified. 

Probably futile response on my part given the enormity of the Internet?  Yes, but there should be limits at which folks are willing to go at the expense of others.  You seem to think it not right of some of our political candidates to act like that, but yet it's OK with you for some to do, and say even more distasteful things here?  Hmm, on second thought, maybe there is a "double standard"....just not where you believe it to be.  Just saying....

EDIT: OK, sorry for the repeat opinion, I see eastbound beat me to it....

if any of our wives/daughters/female friends were photographed in a compromising position without their permission--while they were merely trying to learn to SUP--and if the pictures were posted on a site where they were then ridiculed, we'd understand "personal", and likely not be so happy with that site.

[Quickbeam]

Given the comments from the Admin. this morning, it looks like the hot chicks thread is here to stay. To me this is a mistake and not very forward thinking, but then I’m not the Admin.

I said to someone else just this morning, and I’ll repeat it here. Sometimes I just don’t get Americans. And sorry to lump everyone into one category. I know I shouldn’t do that. But you know it wasn’t all that long ago that Janet Jackson had her famous “nipple slip” at the Super Bowl. There was this huge outcry in the States. To me it was like ‘who cares’. Just not a big deal. But now we have the hot chicks thread on the Zone, which to my way of thinking is a whole lot worse than Janet’s nipple, and people fight to defend it.

You know you shouldn't, and still you did. Makes for a strong argument. Are you really so unsophisticated that you don't understand a media storm vs. anyone actually giving a rats ass about Janet Jackson?

We're not really talking about Americans and their wacky version of morals anyway, we're talking about a forum on the internet. But good on you for making it all about that, when what it really is, is a difference of opinion.

What I do understand, very clearly, is that for a media storm to exist there needs to be public interest. Are you that unsophisticated that you don’t believe a whole lot of people in the States weren’t upset over the Janet Jackson “incident”?

And of course it’s a difference of opinion. Some of that difference however is obviously about morals.

You know, everything else aside, I just think it’s sad that a forum that has so much to offer has members who are doing everything they can to hang onto something that to me, seems so out of place here. And yes, I said to me. But as others here are, I also am entitled to my opinion.

[stoneaxe]

OK....one last time then I'm out. most of this is in response to SeaMe's post but I was too lazy to quote.

I've never said censorship doesn't or shouldn't exist here. The forum reflects the ideas of the admin and hopefully the wishes of the majority of the users. I object to a relatively small number of people trying to force their opinion on others. I've found more than a fair number of the posts there somewhat offensive. I think I posted one picture many moons ago that while it was a picture of a beautiful butt it was also an amazing picture of a duck dive(stolen from Giampalo's considerable collection). The rare times I've commented have been in response to a post from someone whose posts I tend to follow. I agree in large part to what is being said about it . I don't care for many of the photos and dislike the disparaging comments but I don't think my opinion counts for so much as to assume I should force it on others. My opinion is just that, my opinion, I may share it without much reservation but force it....nope.

I've had issues with some of the censorship on the zone and have told admin as much before. If its the thread I think you're talking about though it had some pretty serious accusations in it that hurt the reputations of a few folks. I believe that to be the reason it was taken down (maybe also by request of the original poster). Other censorship has usually involved some level of guerilla marketing being done...some of it in an underhanded way. It helps to have some understanding of the history here. I haven't agreed with some of it but most of it I think has been reasonable.

I do want this to be a place my granddaughter feels welcome but I have no intention of teaching her that her opinion is so precious that its all that counts.  I find that far more damaging. If she ever does come here and doesn't like it she will go elsewhere. Besides, I'm pretty sure she'll be able to handle whatever crap a bunch of guys throw at her. My daughters would think this is a silly argument. They would think the HC thread is a somewhat juvenile thread of boys being boys and that's it. They would care less what the guys here think.

As to Aloha......I was responding to disparaging comments by Area 10 and his idea that anyone that wants to see such photos should go elsewhere. I think its far more reasonable that someone that doesn't like the place or obviously thinks that the majority of the people here are low brow morons or wants something different should be the one to go elsewhere. That this is somehow the wrong venue, is once again opinion, and one that obviously the vast majority disagree with. Not sure why I should return vitriol with aloha..... And it's a very, very, VERY, VERY small portion of the active male members and a handful of women....and not even all of them thinks it should be deleted.

As for peoples knowledge of me by my posts....OK. You think that I've posted in such a way as to be categorized as unkind, indecent, a moron, and a sad wanker amongst other things. I stand by my words. You and anyone else that does feel that way is certainly welcome to that opinion. I have no problem with that. My Dad had a great saying about opinions.......  I do care about the opinion of my fellow zoners but I can't and won't do anything to try and convince anyone I'm anything but me. My opinions are not subject to censure. I can respect that yours aren't either.

Sano....double standard may have been a poor choice of words but i'm not sure how else to categorize it. The double standard I referred to wasn't about whether it OK for the kardashians posting PR photos it was that women flock to see them.....large numbers of women....but somehow women aren't coming here because of some pics and juvenile commentary? If objectification was such a major issue the kardashians wouldn't be famous.
I agree with you in and feel much the same way about the compromising poses and/or disparaging comments. I've said it a number of times. I'm not sure what you're saying about my feelings on politicians but the double standard isn't mine. I wouldn't have to worry about hunting down a guy that did that to my girls, they would want to take care of it themselves and I could almost pity the poor bastard that did it..

I told spirit in a PM that I hope this conversation changes some of the attitude and posts in the HC thread. I don't discount the concerns about some of the pictures and commentary but I think any attempt to force opinion and have the thread deleted will backfire...it already has in fact.

I owe an awful lot to this place. It's been instumental in changing my life for the better. It has it's warts and sometimes the HC thread is one of them. Sometimes I'm one of them. I don't expect this place to be perfect and reflect all of my wishes and think it's pretty silly for others to think otherwise. I do want it to be more inclusive but the change has to be organic and broad based. If the majority of users stop going there and posting there it goes away, if not, it doesn't.

[PonoBill]

I suspect that the reason that thread will remain no matter how compelling the arguments are for it disappearing is that this website makes money for the people who run it. It must be worth a tidy sum. And since website income is related to number of visits, and that thread is the most enduring of all, Admin etc will want to keep it. It's just about the money.

By george you've cracked the code. Here's your opportunity for riches. Start your own forum where you can can be the sole arbiter of good taste and morals. Should be wonderful. Can't wait to see it.

[Quickbeam]

OK....one last time then I'm out. most of this is in response to SeaMe's post but I was too lazy to quote.

I've never said censorship doesn't or shouldn't exist here. The forum reflects the ideas of the admin and hopefully the wishes of the majority of the users. I object to a relatively small number of people trying to force their opinion on others. I've found more than a fair number of the posts there somewhat offensive. I think I posted one picture many moons ago that while it was a picture of a beautiful butt it was also an amazing picture of a duck dive(stolen from Giampalo's considerable collection). The rare times I've commented have been in response to a post from someone whose posts I tend to follow. I agree in large part to what is being said about it . I don't care for many of the photos and dislike the disparaging comments but I don't think my opinion counts for so much as to assume I should force it on others. My opinion is just that, my opinion, I may share it without much reservation but force it....nope.

I've had issues with some of the censorship on the zone and have told admin as much before. If its the thread I think you're talking about though it had some pretty serious accusations in it that hurt the reputations of a few folks. I believe that to be the reason it was taken down (maybe also by request of the original poster). Other censorship has usually involved some level of guerilla marketing being done...some of it in an underhanded way. It helps to have some understanding of the history here. I haven't agreed with some of it but most of it I think has been reasonable.

I do want this to be a place my granddaughter feels welcome but I have no intention of teaching her that her opinion is so precious that its all that counts.  I find that far more damaging. If she ever does come here and doesn't like it she will go elsewhere. Besides, I'm pretty sure she'll be able to handle whatever crap a bunch of guys throw at her. My daughters would think this is a silly argument. They would think the HC thread is a somewhat juvenile thread of boys being boys and that's it. They would care less what the guys here think.

As to Aloha......I was responding to disparaging comments by Area 10 and his idea that anyone that wants to see such photos should go elsewhere. I think its far more reasonable that someone that doesn't like the place or obviously thinks that the majority of the people here are low brow morons or wants something different should be the one to go elsewhere. That this is somehow the wrong venue, is once again opinion, and one that obviously the vast majority disagree with. Not sure why I should return vitriol with aloha..... And it's a very, very, VERY, VERY small portion of the active male members and a handful of women....and not even all of them thinks it should be deleted.

As for peoples knowledge of me by my posts....OK. You think that I've posted in such a way as to be categorized as unkind, indecent, a moron, and a sad wanker amongst other things. I stand by my words. You and anyone else that does feel that way is certainly welcome to that opinion. I have no problem with that. My Dad had a great saying about opinions.......  I do care about the opinion of my fellow zoners but I can't and won't do anything to try and convince anyone I'm anything but me. My opinions are not subject to censure. I can respect that yours aren't either.

Sano....double standard may have been a poor choice of words but i'm not sure how else to categorize it. The double standard I referred to wasn't about whether it OK for the kardashians posting PR photos it was that women flock to see them.....large numbers of women....but somehow women aren't coming here because of some pics and juvenile commentary? If objectification was such a major issue the kardashians wouldn't be famous.
I agree with you in and feel much the same way about the compromising poses and/or disparaging comments. I've said it a number of times. I'm not sure what you're saying about my feelings on politicians but the double standard isn't mine. I wouldn't have to worry about hunting down a guy that did that to my girls, they would want to take care of it themselves and I could almost pity the poor bastard that did it..

I told spirit in a PM that I hope this conversation changes some of the attitude and posts in the HC thread. I don't discount the concerns about some of the pictures and commentary but I think any attempt to force opinion and have the thread deleted will backfire...it already has in fact.

I owe an awful lot to this place. It's been instumental in changing my life for the better. It has it's warts and sometimes the HC thread is one of them. Sometimes I'm one of them. I don't expect this place to be perfect and reflect all of my wishes and think it's pretty silly for others to think otherwise. I do want it to be more inclusive but the change has to be organic and broad based. If the majority of users stop going there and posting there it goes away, if not, it doesn't.

Stoneaxe,

I know your post wasn’t aimed at me, but I nevertheless thought I’d respond.

I think for the most part the debate on this subject has been pretty reasonable. Different opinions, which is fine. And it sometimes got heated which is fine as well.

I’ve never minded a good spirited debate and never shy away from giving my opinion. And I certainly don’t mind getting as good as I give, so to speak. Really didn’t like Admin’s post and absolutely agreed with Spirit’s response to that post. Also thought some very recent posts on this topic were out of line. When you need to start telling people to basically “F*%k off” I just think that is way off base. But maybe there were others on the other side of the argument that were off base as well.

Just wanted to thank you for your last post as it was reasonable and articulate and didn’t resort to name calling, sarcasm, or telling others to F-off. And while you and I don’t agree on everything, there is much we do agree on.

Maybe this is a good place to end it for me as well.

[PonoBill]

Given the comments from the Admin. this morning, it looks like the hot chicks thread is here to stay. To me this is a mistake and not very forward thinking, but then I’m not the Admin.

I said to someone else just this morning, and I’ll repeat it here. Sometimes I just don’t get Americans. And sorry to lump everyone into one category. I know I shouldn’t do that. But you know it wasn’t all that long ago that Janet Jackson had her famous “nipple slip” at the Super Bowl. There was this huge outcry in the States. To me it was like ‘who cares’. Just not a big deal. But now we have the hot chicks thread on the Zone, which to my way of thinking is a whole lot worse than Janet’s nipple, and people fight to defend it.

You know you shouldn't, and still you did. Makes for a strong argument. Are you really so unsophisticated that you don't understand a media storm vs. anyone actually giving a rats ass about Janet Jackson?

We're not really talking about Americans and their wacky version of morals anyway, we're talking about a forum on the internet. But good on you for making it all about that, when what it really is, is a difference of opinion.

What I do understand, very clearly, is that for a media storm to exist there needs to be public interest. Are you that unsophisticated that you don’t believe a whole lot of people in the States weren’t upset over the Janet Jackson “incident”?

And of course it’s a difference of opinion. Some of that difference however is obviously about morals.

You know, everything else aside, I just think it’s sad that a forum that has so much to offer has members who are doing everything they can to hang onto something that to me, seems so out of place here. And yes, I said to me. But as others here are, I also am entitled to my opinion.

Wow, you really don't get it. No, there is absolutely no need for interest by the public for the media to flog the hell out of a story. Media and Celebrity provide positive feedback loops. Media outlet A covers something, so then B does. Since A and B think it's important then C does. Wow, A, B and C. Must be a big deal so DEF through Z.  At no time does public interest enter into the storm. There's no way for public interest to influence media coverage--it happens too fast, the cycles are too short, and no one in the media gives a rip about public interest anyway. Flog it hard enough and advertisers will pay for it. Send a "reporter" out with a mic and interview enough people until you get some idiot to say something really stupid. It's like every "man in the street" interview ever created. Air the responses that support the story you want to create. Anyone that says something intelligent is cut.

That's why politicians watch news cycles. How PR guys like me manipulate reporters and media outlets. Sheesh, even little kids know that.

As for morals, couching your opinion as a superior moral stance is just arrogance. There are more than a few people in the world that consider what you believe to be moral qualifies you to be terminated with prejudice. Your vision of morality is just somewhere along that spectrum, and I have no more interest in it than I do some fundamentalist whackdoodle who believes in invisible men who would be thrilled to whack your and my heads off.

[Area 10]

OK, well it seems like this argument has run its course. And few probably feel any better for having engaged in it.

But to get back to the original question, "how many members of this forum are women?" - well, do we know?

Do we have gender data? When I registered I can't remember if I was ever asked my gender. Would it be worth starting to ask for that data if it isn't available?

[Admin]

But to get back to the original question, "how many members of this forum are women?" - well, do we know?

Hi Area 10,

We are at just under 14% female logged in users in the past year.  Total viewers that have hit the site are just under 13% female.  This is up a little from 11% last year.  Our total viewership has risen this year as has logged in usership. 

It is worth noting that total SUP search (Google) is markedly down for all major keywords https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=stand+up+paddle&geo=US .

[Area 10]

But to get back to the original question, "how many members of this forum are women?" - well, do we know?

Hi Area 10,

We are at just under 14% female logged in users in the past year.  Total viewers that have hit the site are just under 13% female.  This is up a little from 11% last year.  Our total viewership has risen this year as has logged in usership. 

It is worth noting that total SUP search (Google) is markedly down for all major keywords https://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=stand+up+paddle&geo=US .

OK, that actually seems pretty good to me, considering - although I think we all agree that we'd like more female contributors in particular (I doubt that anything like 14% of the posts are submitted by women). Do you know how these figures compare to equivalent forums in other watersports?

Is there any mileage in a particular section of the zone specifically identified as for women (and e.g. where men should only post if asked to...)?

[Ichabod Spoonbill]

One of the reasons I pretty much ignore the Hot Chicks thread is that I regard that part of my life very private. The pictures are of beautiful, sexy women, but I'm not the kind of person to ogle in public.

I'm finding this debate very interesting, BTW. I think there needs to be some sort of consensus on what's done. If the thread stays, we need to ask ourselves what kind of group is this? If we're turning off women by it, then what's a solution? If we get people furious by deleting it, is there another answer?

I love StandupZone, BTW. It's my favorite refuge during work hours.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk