Connor Baxter on Stroke Technique and Paddle Length

[Area 10]

It's really good of Connor to give away his hard-earned experience for free. He's got the makings of a good teacher.

But one thing I wanted to know more about was how he changes his weight on his feet through the stroke. He mentions having his weight right forward on his toes for the catch, but then if you think about what you'd do if you were doing the "pole and skateboard" movement, you'd be wanting to get your weight back on your heels. So I'm wondering if this is a key unspoken aspect of this stroke - weight forward on your toes at the catch and then a transfer to your heels as you push your board forward with your feet, then a return to fully balanced (heels and toes) towards the end of the stroke as he "stands up" and brings the hips forward.

This use of bodyweight changes in the stroke might be the start of the development of a stroke unique to SUP.

[Bean]

A10, I was thinking more along the lines of a sprinter start position, on the balls of the feet.

[mrbig]

I read somewhere, can't remember where, that a subtle change to pull forward, or stand up, or to rotate  is best accomplished by a subtle change to weight on the heels..

[ninja tuna]

Hey Pono,

Since you know Connor, how tall is he so I can get an idea of a few of his measurements.

Thanks in advance.

[Chilly]

Another great interview Robert. Interesting to hear his comments on the stroke rate of Danny and Travis in how efficient those guys are.

[Area 10]

A10, I was thinking more along the lines of a sprinter start position, on the balls of the feet.

I read somewhere, can't remember where, that a subtle change to pull forward, or stand up, or to rotate  is best accomplished by a subtle change to weight on the heels..

If you look at the position he adopts to illustrate his point (skateboard and pole analogy) at 9:52, would it be possible to have his weight on the balls of his feet at that point? I'm not sure. It seems to me that what he is trying to illustrate, perhaps more in theory than practice, is an idea of getting your weight behind where you are going to be standing at the end of the recovery phase, when you've thrown your hips forward. In that movement, it is easy to put all the weight on your front heel, and even lift the front foot toes a little, and then in pulling forward, to transfer weight to the balls of your feet or toes, while rotating to pull yourself forward.

I had noticed this before in recent pictures of Connor paddling. He looks like he's trying to replicate the movement he demonstrates in the video when on the board, almost using his bodyweight to push the board forward with his feet. In order to do this, he seems to be trying to get the main mass of his body as far away from the paddle as possible. It's not so much reaching, as it is sitting back. If you missed a stroke and weren't doing this while correctly balanced, you'd fall flat on your ass. But IF this is what he is getting at here, it is a radical departure from the current (or perhaps previous) wisdom, where the consequence of missing a stroke would most likely to be to fall forwards, not backwards.

[TeachSB]

Weight on the toes was an interesting comment for sure.  Honestly, I'm going to have to play with that idea myself to see how it feels but it just seems "wrong" to me.  The reason I say that is that in any other movement where you are hinging from the hips, moving weight onto the heels creates more tension in the glutes and shifting it to the feet creates more tension on the quads.  For example, in a Kettlebell Swing the weight should be toward the heels to maximize glute contraction but a lot of people mistakenly put their weight on their toes and use their quads to power the movement.  In something like a vertical jump we split the difference and keep our weight on the balls of the foot, so maybe that would be ideal here as well. 

Not that he is wrong, I'm just curious what exactly that weight shift accomplishes. 

- Teach

[mrbig]

Bean, Area, Teach - Great stuff.

Kettlebell swing always from the heels. +1 Teach.

After looking at the vid on something other than a phone, I think he is probably starting his pull and forward press slightly from his heels, and ending slightly on his toes. +1 A10.

Am still digesting sit to plant and stand to pull. Way less bending from the waist. Glutes, legs, still strongest last I looked.

Going to test in my training facility (pond) if the 20 kt CAPE AND ISLANDS WIND ADVISORY is wrong. Got blown almost to France yesterday!!

[blueplanetsurf]

Just like swimming - the 'winners' are often not necessarily the best just the fastest.

I have to disagree with this comment.  In swimming technique is paramount, a swimmer that is out of shape but has excellent technique can easily out-swim a super fit athlete with poor technique.  To win a race you have to be both in good shape physically and have efficient technique.  One without the other won't win a swim race.  I guess you can argue about whether the fastest swimmer also has the best technique but the proof is in the pudding, so looking at and trying to emulate the technique of those winning races can't hurt.

Paddling technique is similar, especially when you are starting out the gains in speed from improving technique are usually bigger than gains from becoming more fit, in my opinion. 

[corrego]

when i do the hip hinge in the kettlebell swing i always make sure to have my weight on the full foot. Not just the heels, and i finish on the ball of the feet

[ninja tuna]

you are doing something wrong if you are ending your kettlebell swing on the balls of your feet.

here is what I am talking about  corrego



to the whole balance thing, weight on the balls of the feet is not a strong posture. you are having to coordinate too many muscles for the the desired effect, balance. if you are on the balls of your feet, your ankles are bent, using the calf muscles, to counter this, your knees are going to be bent putting a lot of effort into your quads, and up the line. try it. stand on your balls for 30 seconds and see how all those muscles feel.

a more heel weight orientation, not all on the heels, with the knees slightly bent puts more emphasis on the bigger muscles of the glutes and hamstrings. Now stand again with maybe a 60/40 or 70/30 with more weight towards the heel and the lesser percentage towards the front of the for with the same knee bend. It is much easier. And also quicker to react to change

[eastbound]

+1 blue planet

you see this in tri often--good swimmers, who get crushed in bike and run, dust the most fit runners/bikers in the swim---i get a giggle watching fitness machines exert like i never will----and go nowhere fast----thrashing like crazy

[corrego]

i do that. I never raise the heels. But i do engage the whole sole at the end making sure my toes are in contact with the floor.
In the video you can see how the big toe is fully engage at the end of the hinge. That is what i mean.

This exercise is excelente for SUP training. I cannot recommend highly enough.

[starman]

This conversation had a tinge of deja vu for me so a quick search came up with these posts from July 01, 2013 on the thread titled "Do you bury your paddle?

From Headmount post #40

I

paddled yesterday and thought about this thread. 

Took this Aussie from Manley on his first downwinder.   Now normally i get prepared to drag my paddle for such a disclaimer and I don't get much of a work-out.  He sounded unassuming on the phone but when we launched at the boat ramp and I struggled up to my feet, I glanced back to see him leap from a standing start, onto the board.  Now I've seen Conner do that but Conner doesn't ask me for guidance on a run.

This guy, Lincoln was 6'2" and was as cut as Laird.  Proceeded to lay down the most perfect stroke I've ever seen... his board was my 14'.  I say to myself, well we'll see how he does in the bump but we enter the bump and I'm just behind him, hammering.  I start gliding and manage to stay in front of him, just barely, but it's a light day and any time i start hunting for a glide, he's right up next to me in a blink.  And that's the way it was the whole 10 mile run.  The only way I was staying with him was the tremendous advantage I had with my Bullet.  Lincoln was super strong, had fantastic technique and no problem in the open. So the short of it is that I had to go as hard as I do racing, to stay with him... on his first run, on a well shaped but heavy board that weighs 34 lbs and is 28" wide.

So I'm trying hard to maximize my stroke and suddenly flashed that when I really wanted power, I was sinking that thing at least to the shaft and maybe a few inches more... and it worked getting into glides.  Wouldn't dream of maintaining that stroke for the majority of the time but when I needed it, that worked.  It seems to go along with driving your knees forward and reaching forward with some waist bend.

            
Then from JonahnanC at #44

Annabel Anderson from New Zealand (crusher of male egos internationally) has a very deep paddle stroke, but as well as the extreme hip bend she also bends her knees. Her paddle is short and at the end of the stroke she has an explosive recovery straightening her knees and her hips and really opening her chest.
When I'm trying to explain it to people I'm helping with technique I use the little mental image of a bungy cord attached to your sternum, it goes up into the sky at an angle of 45 degrees and it lifts and opens your body. and the action is so explosive you gain a lot of momentum from your hips and chest moving forward. At the end of this explosive lifting and opening of your body your weight is so far forward that if you don't make a strong catch you could well end up falling over the front of the board.
Because Annabel is standing so tall during the recovery she doesn't need to do anything but lift the paddle straight out of the water, no side movement to clear the blade. Her contention is that paddling power is actually about lower body strength and endurance.
To start the plant she says just fall forward, a long way forward of course. Bend strongly at knees and hips and plant deep. Of course she is incredibly fit strong and supple and can seemingly maintain this power stroke for ever!

My mistake has been not paying attention enough to the length of the paddle. All of our paddles are WAY too long. The other mistake is being lazy with the knee bend, stop bending then the back starts taking all the load so I assumed longer paddle is better to protect the back.

[pdxmike]

Just like swimming - the 'winners' are often not necessarily the best just the fastest.

I have to disagree with this comment.  In swimming technique is paramount, a swimmer that is out of shape but has excellent technique can easily out-swim a super fit athlete with poor technique.  To win a race you have to be both in good shape physically and have efficient technique.  One without the other won't win a swim race.  I guess you can argue about whether the fastest swimmer also has the best technique but the proof is in the pudding, so looking at and trying to emulate the technique of those winning races can't hurt.

Paddling technique is similar, especially when you are starting out the gains in speed from improving technique are usually bigger than gains from becoming more fit, in my opinion.

I agree with you and Eastbound about how important technique is in swimming.  My masters team had a special lane for the triathletes, who called themselves "land men" and always got smoked by swimmers twice their age and half their size and fitness level.

But UK knows what he's talking about with swimming and especially technique, so his remark has to have truth in it, even if it seems wrong on the surface.  For instance, a good racer can beat all but elite swimmers with dives, turns and finish timing, even if his actual swimming is worse.  Or the 6'-5" young guy with huge hands and feet and mediocre technique can still beat most people who have better technique.   

What I notice with some very fast swimmers (including Olympians) is that some really don't know much about technique--maybe because they came by it naturally, so didn't need to study it.  Or sometimes their technique is actually great, but they don't understand why it is, and explain their stroke in ways that really doesn't make sense.  You also hear this from coaches who coach elite swimmers--they can't believe how little some elite swimmers know about technique.  I'm sure that kind of thing happens with fast paddlers--they obviously are doing a lot right, but some of what they think is making them fast really isn't, and some of what really is making them fast are things they don't even realize they're doing, and might even deny if you told them.

If you want proof of this, look at old interviews with elite swimmers who are explaining their speed using all the reasoning of the 70s or 80s that has been pretty much debunked since then.  The ironic thing is that some of these people weren't swimming according to the wisdom of the day--they were doing lots that was thought to be "wrong"  at the time, but later was realized to be beneficial.  (In fact, that's likely why they were faster than everyone else.)  It's just that at the time, nobody noticed how much their strokes were deviating from the common wisdom of the day.  For instance, you'll see interviews of swimmers stressing how important body rotation is (which used to be sacred but no longer is) but videos show that they were rotating less than everyone they were beating.