Author Topic: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW  (Read 31411 times)

Eagle

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2016, 08:52:57 AM »
A10 good info - and so refreshing to see a review that has complete and full disclosure.  Any biased review written by someone who is connected to the brand - without disclosure - is an out and out shill and a disgrace. 

At least some more recently have the honor and decency to disclose they are ambassadors - or they obtained a discount - or they received a commission in some way.  But still - not putting this in their sig seems very shady and not right.  Having to dig for this by others - or find this info in an old post - is pretty low and seems deceitful.  Ones that simply post this connection in their sig for all to see - all the time - are doing the right thing and garner respect.

Both you and coldsup are right as well in your comments about testing a board firsthand.  Even with the same weight and height - a board can feel vastly different to the user if their balance levels differ.  A note about feeble legs - what helps is doing heavy low squats.  Seems to strengthen your stance a lot when getting tossed about in slop and chop - legs do not seem to get tired out as fast.  May help if you are ok to do them.

Odd thing is - my old M-14 is quite nose heavy as well.  Though it does balance out somewhat with the heavy glass tracker fin in place.  All manufacturers should simply test this out and get it right before shipping.  SIC with their Easy Grab seems to work best as the handle can be torqued just by changing your grip a bit.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 09:09:20 AM by Eagle »
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surfssup

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2016, 03:11:00 AM »
Hello guys

Just correcting something that was mentioned.   I am the UK importer for JL so yes, I have an interest.    I have looked to see how others are showing their associations but couldn't find anything , so if you could point it out I'd be happy to mention my links.



As for the recent independent review, I am very pleased to see the board was well received.    Area 10 seemed very pleased with the board when he dropped it off after trialing it for a few days.

Handle balancing, I spoke with Jimmy after this was first noted and he advised that he has once again told the factory to address this. He has a very simple method for them to follow but in this run it was not correct.

I cannot comment on construction other than it is full sandwich.

I know my team rider who uses the 14x23 has been getting a lot of time out on the board and scored a 3rd at Battle of the Thames after he had 2 years out of the race scene and scored a 2nd place last week so not too shabby.   It's been flat water racing to date.   He also has a 14x25 for when conditions get too tricky on such a skinny stick.

This board is an exciting progressive shape that will lead to further development as with anything.  We're really lucky to have some superb team riders and ambassadors, but for those of you that know Jimmy, he does not believe in simply giving boards to paddlers .  These guys really believe in the boards they're riding and that says something.



From my own water time - I have been a lot fast on the Sidewinder in clean, sharper dw conditions, but once it got more confused I opted for my Rail as the extra balance between strokes meant I wasn't missing a stroke or bump grab.


Hope that clears it up and happy to field any questions.........
Jimmy Lewis UK Importer

surfssup

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2016, 04:56:32 AM »
i
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 05:32:41 AM by surfssup »
Jimmy Lewis UK Importer

ukgm

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2016, 09:26:42 AM »
I think someone did quite well on one at a flat race the other day around the Thames.

https://www.supboardermag.com/2016/05/11/2016-battle-of-the-thames-in-london-event-video/
3th place was a JL Sidewinder. But was it a 14x23 or 14x25?

Edit: it was a 14x23 -> http://www.ezsup.co.uk/#!Battle-of-the-Thames-2016-National-SUP-CLUB-Series/c1b9y/572f26bb0cf20cbfb294f74e

This is an irrelevance though - his results could just as easily be in spite of the board than because of it. Either way, a review from a good rider with perfect balance and technique is not representative of the actual market. What we really need is a review from a middle of the pack paddler who bought their own board, not ambassadors and dealers trotting out marketing spiel.

I've seen the board and I'm curious as the new nose seems to really throw the spray out when on flat water which should mean it's terrible there but it seems to be a trend the likes of this and the starboard allstar are following (and I'm hearing very mixed reviews about that one too).

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2016, 11:19:55 AM »
Hey UKGM.



You're more than welcome to come and try a 14x25 to see how you get on. You have probably seen the board Mo has in Bournemouth which is only 12'6, maybe a bit small as you're pretty tall.

My comment relating to the fact it has done well in flat water races, simply that it must has something going to for it considering he is racing some of the UK top racers on flat water specific boards.



Anyway, on the 30th July we are offering a FREE training session with our main team rider don here in Bracklesham, Sussex.  We'll work on paddle technique etc.    You are more than welcome to come join the session and try the board, thus reviewing it yourself.   I'd be very interested to see what you think once ridden.


« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 11:42:32 AM by surfssup »
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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2016, 12:12:00 PM »
I think someone did quite well on one at a flat race the other day around the Thames.

https://www.supboardermag.com/2016/05/11/2016-battle-of-the-thames-in-london-event-video/
3th place was a JL Sidewinder. But was it a 14x23 or 14x25?

Edit: it was a 14x23 -> http://www.ezsup.co.uk/#!Battle-of-the-Thames-2016-National-SUP-CLUB-Series/c1b9y/572f26bb0cf20cbfb294f74e

This is an irrelevance though - his results could just as easily be in spite of the board than because of it. Either way, a review from a good rider with perfect balance and technique is not representative of the actual market. What we really need is a review from a middle of the pack paddler who bought their own board, not ambassadors and dealers trotting out marketing spiel.

I've seen the board and I'm curious as the new nose seems to really throw the spray out when on flat water which should mean it's terrible there but it seems to be a trend the likes of this and the starboard allstar are following (and I'm hearing very mixed reviews about that one too).
Well I'm pretty much the guy you describe - against my peers the same age I do OK but against a full pack of all age ranges and including sponsored riders I'd only be mid-pack. And I always pay for my own boards. So you've had one review at least. I GPS all my workouts and have about 8 years' worth of data on lots of boards on some standard courses I paddle. So it's quite easy for me to judge how fast a board is when I try it, assuming the weather co-operates.

I do think you should try the Sidewinder. You might also try the Mistral Equinox, which is another hybrid board that performs well as an all-conditions race board. A SIC FX would be interesting to try too.

These new breed of hybrid boards are so stable for their width and so user-friendly that it's easy to manage surprisingly decent average speeds without tiring. Actually, they kinda change the way you paddle, which is interesting.

What criticisms have you heard about the All Star? Mostly the coverage on the web has been extraordinarily positive, I thought. Coldsup seems to have given a more balanced review but have I missed something else?





ukgm

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2016, 01:01:56 PM »
I think someone did quite well on one at a flat race the other day around the Thames.

https://www.supboardermag.com/2016/05/11/2016-battle-of-the-thames-in-london-event-video/
3th place was a JL Sidewinder. But was it a 14x23 or 14x25?

Edit: it was a 14x23 -> http://www.ezsup.co.uk/#!Battle-of-the-Thames-2016-National-SUP-CLUB-Series/c1b9y/572f26bb0cf20cbfb294f74e

This is an irrelevance though - his results could just as easily be in spite of the board than because of it. Either way, a review from a good rider with perfect balance and technique is not representative of the actual market. What we really need is a review from a middle of the pack paddler who bought their own board, not ambassadors and dealers trotting out marketing spiel.

I've seen the board and I'm curious as the new nose seems to really throw the spray out when on flat water which should mean it's terrible there but it seems to be a trend the likes of this and the starboard allstar are following (and I'm hearing very mixed reviews about that one too).
Well I'm pretty much the guy you describe - against my peers the same age I do OK but against a full pack of all age ranges and including sponsored riders I'd only be mid-pack. And I always pay for my own boards. So you've had one review at least. I GPS all my workouts and have about 8 years' worth of data on lots of boards on some standard courses I paddle. So it's quite easy for me to judge how fast a board is when I try it, assuming the weather co-operates.

I do think you should try the Sidewinder. You might also try the Mistral Equinox, which is another hybrid board that performs well as an all-conditions race board. A SIC FX would be interesting to try too.

These new breed of hybrid boards are so stable for their width and so user-friendly that it's easy to manage surprisingly decent average speeds without tiring. Actually, they kinda change the way you paddle, which is interesting.

What criticisms have you heard about the All Star? Mostly the coverage on the web has been extraordinarily positive, I thought. Coldsup seems to have given a more balanced review but have I missed something else?

Yep it wasn't aimed at you but the extent of positive reviews with clear undisclosed bias is pretty awful on here.

I tried the 24.5 Equinox last week after a race but (at my height and weight) was beyond a comfortable level of stability I would race on. Plenty of friends of mine do like it though and it is light, well made and well conceived. I have been told from a good source that it was mapped after an Ace but with a wider tail then added.

As for the Allstar, the coverage on the web has been mixed with some sites saying it is great, others saying it is slower than last years and Larry Cain yet to publish the results of his own testing. There are a lot of clear conflicts of interest again though and I know of several athletes who have one who say its not brilliant in a small chop/flatter water scenario. I would discount that though until I've tried it myself. I want to know if the 25 14ft is as overtly stable as people have been raving about. Do you have a link to a good review for it on here as I'd like to know more of people's experiences about it. The mooted 2017 24.5 is likely too much for me but I might consider it.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2016, 01:14:17 PM by ukgm »

coldsup

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2016, 01:35:46 PM »
The 27 Allstar is really stable and I am talking about stability on the ocean rather than flat water stuff.

 I would be okay on the 25 on flat water and guess would be okay over more time out in the ocean...but I don't paddle 14 boards all the time and regularly....so 25 not for me.

I really like the uncluttered design of the board.....it is a user friendly board.....but I will leave it to the racers to decide how it stacks up against others. I'm not surprised it is well liked though.

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2016, 01:41:12 PM »
ukgm - Other than Coldsup's valuable insights, all the All Star reviews are virtually all from retailers, Starboard employees, or other people with a potential conflict of interest I think.

There must surely be someone who races one in the UK? Could you try theirs. If there isn't anyone, maybe that says all you need to know. Or maybe they are just too expensive. There are still unsold 2015 Naish Javelin LEs for sale in the UK I think - they were over £2.5k.

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2016, 01:46:32 PM »
ukgm - Other than Coldsup's valuable insights, all the All Star reviews are virtually all from retailers, Starboard employees, or other people with a potential conflict of interest I think.

There must surely be someone who races one in the UK? Could you try theirs. If there isn't anyone, maybe that says all you need to know. Or maybe they are just too expensive. There are still unsold 2015 Naish Javelin LEs for sale in the UK I think - they were over £2.5k.
Oh, and the 14x25 Sidewinder is quite a lot more stable than the Equinox.

Luc Benac

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2016, 01:51:34 PM »
ukgm - Other than Coldsup's valuable insights, all the All Star reviews are virtually all from retailers, Starboard employees, or other people with a potential conflict of interest I think.

There must surely be someone who races one in the UK? Could you try theirs. If there isn't anyone, maybe that says all you need to know. Or maybe they are just too expensive. There are still unsold 2015 Naish Javelin LEs for sale in the UK I think - they were over £2.5k.

Same here the glowing reviews are usually from "sponsored" riders: i.e. this is such a great board at 2/3 or 1/2 the price, which to me is different than this is such a great board and I have no regret to have shelled so much $$$. A few people I know are not that sold on it and did not quite like it for catching bump. I tried one briefly and did not like it. I do prefer my Blackfish five-fold....but I am a bellow average paddler, so...
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Eagle

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2016, 02:53:45 PM »
Well my wife and I are pretty much average paddlers and we receive no compensation in any way from SB or any other brand.  We have no undisclosed associations with any brand - and do not even get quasi "pro" deals.  Often the stuff we get is from CL or advertised end-of-season discounts.   ;D

Now a couple of years ago when my wife first started - she could barely stand 5 minutes on our Dominator without taking a break.  When she easily jumped on the 14x25 All Star CS and started paddling away from me - it was surprising as she never had paddled a board narrower than 27.25".  So it goes to show that balance skill is a very real and very personal aspect to SUP.  So both our answers would be - the 25 is exceptionally stable for a 25.  And just slightly less stable than our Dominator.

In fact I have now tried two different AS 23 CS - and am trying to justify adding one of those to our quiver.  But for what we do in the ocean - am still not convinced we really need a narrower board at all.  The 4 boards we have cover pretty much 95% of what we do out there.  Nevertheless - if we can get one for a really deep discount - we may.  Since my wife agrees she would use it as well.  Getting a CS used for a lot less than a Hybrid new - does have appeal.

Interestingly - one of our local higher ranked racers tested the 23 25 and 27 AS.  His on the water timed speed results he posted online declared no clear winner for him.  So it seems weight and balance are the key fundamental factors at play when the engine is taken out of the equation - when comparing different widths.  Where we paddle in the ocean - we always deal with variable and sometimes rough conditions.  So that may be reason why that 25 is so stable for us.

Good on supsurf though to declare his close association to Jimmy.  Keeping it real and transparent with no nonsense and no bs is always a good approach.   ;)

Now c'mon Luc - we've paddled together - quit playin.
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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2016, 03:27:49 PM »
ukgm - Other than Coldsup's valuable insights, all the All Star reviews are virtually all from retailers, Starboard employees, or other people with a potential conflict of interest I think.

There must surely be someone who races one in the UK? Could you try theirs. If there isn't anyone, maybe that says all you need to know. Or maybe they are just too expensive. There are still unsold 2015 Naish Javelin LEs for sale in the UK I think - they were over £2.5k.
Oh, and the 14x25 Sidewinder is quite a lot more stable than the Equinox.
I’m surprised you find the Sidewinder a lot more stable than the Equinox. I would have thought that the sunken decks of the Equinox would have made it as stable. I’m hoping the Equinox will make it to the States to demo. Just for reference, three boards that I have demoed are the 14x25 All Star, Bark Vapor, and SIC FX. The All Star was the most stable and the FX the most unstable. These were short demos so I can’t comment on speed.
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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2016, 05:41:48 PM »
Yeah, maybe "a lot" is pushing it a bit far, on reflection. Perhaps "a bit" might be a better judgement. The Sidewinder is a fraction wider and has a much wider tail, plus quite thick rails, and these factors just outweigh the sunken deck and fairly deep concave of the Equinox. I'm probably going to do a separate review of the Equinox so I won't bother saying too much here, but it feels a lot like an Ace but with easier handling. So if you know what an Ace feels like you will know how sunken decks do give stability of sorts. But the loss of volume of a dugout also gives a distinctive handling characteristic that some people feel stable with and some don't. So I think that judgements of stability for dugouts are likely to be quite personal things. Some people describe the 14x25 Ace as stable for it's width, especially in chop. But I don't find it stable at all. The Equinox is usefully more stable than the Ace 14x25 IMO.


mr_proper

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Re: Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder - will it, won't it DW
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2016, 11:55:07 PM »
What we really need is a review from a middle of the pack paddler who bought their own board, not ambassadors and dealers trotting out marketing spiel.

I bought my own Sidewinder 14x25 and I'm not a ambassador or dealer of Jimmy Lewis.
And I fully agree with the review by Area10.

I started last year with paddling on a SIC Bullet TWC on flat water, bought a used JL Stiletto (14x28, 2014) because the Bullet isn't fast on flat water.
But the Stiletto wasn't fast than assumed and I bought a used Starboard Sprint (14x23, 2015).
In fact the Sprint was slower than the Stiletto, because I did not have the balance skills for this narrow board (yes on flat water it was very fast, but with some very little waves or in races, it meant a lot of swimming for me.
After a race I could test a Sidewinder 14x25 and it was great. Within 10 minutes, I decided to buy this board.
Meanwhile, I did two races with the Sidewinder. 19 km (lost mills) and 10km (Alps Trophy) without swimming :D
Ok, I'm not a fast paddler, because I have no technic and endurance. Drafting is a lucky game and I became slowly if the water isn't flat, buoy turns are a desaster or very slowly. So I was very happy with my average speed of 8.2 km/h and 8.4 km/h. This means there is potential to become faster ;-)
With the Sidewinder I have really fun and no stress and it is faster than the Stiletto. So a perfect choice for me.
I'm 51, 202 lbs and 6'.3".

 
SIC RS 14x23, 2018
SIC RS 14x26, 2018
Lightcorp Signature Race 14x24.75, 2018 (sold)
JP Australia AdventurAir 12x36, 2017
Starboard Allstar 14x24.5, 2017 (sold)
SIC Bullet 14x27.25 TWC, 2015
Jimmy Lewis Sidewinder 14x25, 2016 (sold)
Sprint 14x23, 2015 (sold)
JL Stiletto 14x28, 2014 (sold)

 


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