Author Topic: Diy sup foil  (Read 33581 times)

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #225 on: February 25, 2017, 09:23:17 AM »
 new adjustable stabilizer made from the tips of the old main foil for quick adjustment between anhedral and dihedral, angle of incedence, and the foils can also swap over so we can try having the low pressure side on the top to see how that affects things. goes rock solid when the bolt is tightened up so should work ok
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 09:25:01 AM by container »

supuk

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #226 on: February 25, 2017, 10:43:49 PM »
nice that should give you some room to play a bit just make sure its nice and stiff. I have played with incidence in the past out on the water just with shims, I think now I'm getting the hang of cad I will just make a few different moulds for the rear foils and just make it so I can change them out quick and easy.

SURFFOILS

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #227 on: February 26, 2017, 01:19:54 AM »
Container, I did a lot of work on An and Di tips a few years ago.
 With a flat foil the lift drops as the foil rolls L to R, and the loss of lift is quite dramatic Vs the angle. That is at say 5 degrees you lose maybe 10% lift but at 15 degrees you lose maybe 40% .

 An hedral, that is downturning the tip decreases the lift even on a Flat plane so you are wasting area for no lift. As you roll, the An tip returns even less lift. 

Di hedral, or up turning the tips also reduces lift on the flat plane ( as opposed to a completely flat foil) but as the foil rolls, the inside Dihedral tip comes into the horizontal plane and increases lift at the tip.
 So as you turn the inside tip increases in lift and stabilises your turn. That's why most planes have Di hedral wings. Huh ?
 The angle of the Di or An has to suit the roll angle so it's a smooth transition as you turn and the area of the tip is also important. I've used a tapered tip so as you lean into a turn you can feel the lift from the tip, but also get the feeling of the lift fading as the tip tapers so you know where you are based on feedback.
 
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 01:29:12 AM by SURFFOILS »

supuk

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #228 on: February 26, 2017, 01:48:01 AM »
Been playing around a little more with cad and done a few more test's with different tool paths and adding a few bits to the mould. This one came out good except the step over was 50% to low. Hoping to get the final mast mould cut in the next few days

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #229 on: February 26, 2017, 10:01:26 AM »
mast looks wicked supuk! do you finish it by hand from that point or is custom wood just shit for machining?
 surffoils i have found there is far less drag with an anhedral main foil, according to my videos there is next to no wave drag compared to the same foils in a dihedral position but like you said the loss in effective area is quite noticeable. these hinged wings are only the stabilizer, its just a short term set up to quickly change position and see the effects it has on the board then i will glue it together once we have found a sweet spot. i have also cut off and swapped over the tips on the main foil as these had 0 toe in and i think were only aiding the tip vortex. hopefully it will be slippery enough for the sup board im starting to get real sick of carbon dust!


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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #230 on: February 26, 2017, 12:10:03 PM »
Container, the finished setup looks sick, I'm only using a single foil with no stab.
I found things end up being a compromise of whats good in a straight line Vs turning but it would be good if there was a perfect setup for everything.
Oh yeah, I found the same about No Toe too.
I would love to be there when you're testing it, that adjustable rig is absolutely amazing.

surfcowboy

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #231 on: February 26, 2017, 07:43:50 PM »
Man, I'd almost say keep the adjustable and build one fixed that matches the angle but as I type this, I know how it is when you're finishing something. You couldn't pay me to sand another minute by the time I finish a board. ;)

SupUK, I have a cad expert here in LA that we can hire if you get into anything too weird to finish. I can't wait to see the final molds.

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #232 on: February 27, 2017, 11:07:33 PM »
Container, I really like the adjustable angle stabilizer wing and am curious what you find.  The Go Foil stabilizers are angled downwards while most of the kite foils I have seen are angled or curved upward, I wonder how they act differently.

Surffoils, in my experience the Kai Foil, which has downturned tips, creates more lift in turns than when going straight, I'm not sure why but I think the g-forces of the turn increase the speed of the water flowing over the foil and you really have to lean forward into a turn to keep it from coming too high out of the water.  I'm really  curious about your single foil design, can you post a photo of it please?

 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 11:10:55 PM by blueplanetsurf »
Robert Stehlik
Blue Planet Surf Shop, Honolulu
Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #233 on: February 28, 2017, 03:39:44 AM »
I'm really  curious about your single foil design, can you post a photo of it please?

Me too!  Delta? 

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #234 on: February 28, 2017, 11:52:49 AM »
Thanks for your interest guys, if you Google 'Surffoils' and look at the Images there's hundreds of pics of my foils and videos.
Single,double, triple foils that are un-stallable, they regulate the amount of lift so it's always stable. Theres no glassing, the components can be swapped in and out to adjust to your skills and the waves.
Depending on the design they cost about $100-$150 to make and they're designed to ride on standard tubing beachwaves, bottom turns , tubes.
 If I had the time I would certainly have a range of my own SURFFOILS on the market.
Questions ?

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #235 on: February 28, 2017, 12:51:46 PM »
Thanks surffoil, I googled it and I did find your vimeo channel:


I guess you have the foils mounted on a body board, so now it makes sense that you were able to learn it without the usual wipeouts from the standing position, haha.

I like the idea of multiple foils to avoid stalling and also the single wing foil.  You said you are now learning to foil on a SUP, are you using the same foils as on the body board?

« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 12:53:24 PM by blueplanetsurf »
Robert Stehlik
Blue Planet Surf Shop, Honolulu
Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #236 on: February 28, 2017, 04:14:09 PM »
I don't know why it won't embed here, there's no privacy regulation I've done.

The prone foiling gave me the chance to work out how to ride them and what changes to the design made to the riding. I rode thousands of waves on the prone foils since seeing Laird in 06. When you're prone there's no fear of losing balance so I learnt that you can bunny hop on foils, do high speed surface slides by intentionally ventilating the foil.     That the foil design for normal surfing waves has to adjust for the angle down the face towards the beach, the angle down towards the nose and the curve of the wave itself with bigger waves needing a wider, longer foil for stability at high speed.
 I started with the Twin lateral foils like Laird did and tried so many arrangements with NACA profiles and all the carbon, Aluminium ,glass layups, grinding, sanding. Trying to get the right angles front and back,  the distance between, trying An and Di tips becuase it was bogging in the turns and after about 2 years I gave up.
Screw it !
And then I thought surfings a left and right engagement, especially due to the water flow on a wave and  not directly from the front. So I turned the foils to go front to back and it's like night and day.
 Here's a pic of one of the 2009 foils in the Vimeo videos.
 It's very basic from what my foils are now but it shows that you can use a single foil in the surf and have complete control.

3 ply with 1x6 and 1x carbon. Flat plate, no foil, 5 mm thick, so no form drag and it's very light.


















« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 05:15:23 PM by SURFFOILS »

SURFFOILS

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #237 on: February 28, 2017, 05:38:29 PM »
And there's a ton of information on my prone foils on Swaylocks back to about a year before Laird. I got the bug from Terry Hendricks (U.S) who was doing foiling back to the 1980's. And a guy Gilbert Lum from Hawaii. We all built our own boards and foils. But when I saw Laird I had to try shortboard and then SUP foiling.

And there's a lot of surfing forums ( Swaylocks, SurfingWaves, Compsand, RealSurf ) with pics of me and other guys riding my paddle in shortboard hydrofoils in 2013. Just 3 years before Kai did it.










« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 05:43:34 PM by SURFFOILS »

supuk

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #238 on: March 01, 2017, 04:05:48 PM »
Man, I'd almost say keep the adjustable and build one fixed that matches the angle but as I type this, I know how it is when you're finishing something. You couldn't pay me to sand another minute by the time I finish a board. ;)

SupUK, I have a cad expert here in LA that we can hire if you get into anything too weird to finish. I can't wait to see the final molds.

Getting there with cad, I get distracted every now and then and start drawing other stuff that I have wanted to do for years but not been able to as I didn't know how! I have also had a few bits to do for the guys at the place were the cnc is as they were not fully up to speed with cad and cam ether, starting to get some good parts coming out of it now just having to spend a bit of time figuring out the machine as its a china job and means a lot of the time things are not always as simple as they should be and there is zero information or manuals and zero backup and support (I'm sure I have come across that problem before, sound familiar ???)

bunch of new router bits turned up today  which is good news so it wont take as long to cut everything out.

I'm using fusion 360 for cad and cam which has been great as there is a huge online network of people willing to help and it uses a cloud so they help side by side.

These are a few of the bits ive been working on this week. the middle one will be a new dust extractor attachment for my cnc back home that I will 3d print.

and that's another thing now I can do cad I can officially allow myself to get a 3d printer when I get back to the uk  along with building a second cnc :)

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Re: Diy sup foil
« Reply #239 on: March 02, 2017, 06:45:37 PM »
  You said you are now learning to foil on a SUP, are you using the same foils as on the body board?

Yes Robert, they're the same foils. But some things are different. The Distance between board and foil is shorter so Ive lost The Pump but gained lots more control. The shorter mast means the whole setup is lighter and the balance point is closer to my feet and the transition between paddling and flight is quicker.
With a longer mast, sometimes when the foil stalls the mast acts like a lever tipping the board down at an angle into the water, with a shorter mast the angle is less so easier to recover. I'm using masts no longer than 18" and some down to 8" where it's more like Ground Effect Vehicle (GEV) skimming with the board rails coming into action on cutbacks and bottom turns.
 It's inevitable that such a new sport like SUP and shortboard foiling will move quickly from the basics into a more complex and aggressive style. I look at handgliding and how it's developed into those Red Bull Flying Wing Suits and the same with SUP, not long ago they were very chunky beasts but now it's split into ocean, beach, flatwater and foil, ( and probably more) with each discipline having its own exacting designs and functions.
 For me I always foiled in the surf so my designs have progressed in that direction but it's sure that Foil SUPs will diversify and get more refined in design and performance.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 07:19:33 PM by SURFFOILS »

 


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