Author Topic: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout  (Read 40383 times)

supuk

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #75 on: February 10, 2016, 11:50:05 AM »
what get me is that starboard can get away with calling it hybrid carbon but when you look at the specs it says the only carbon is some uni down the rails that probably amount to about $15 and probably less than 5% of the materials in the board!



 how much carbon do you have to put on a all glass board to legally call it carbon?



There is no way that the hybrid carbon is going to be stiffer than the carbon sandwich  yet they say flex is good.

pumping the board over bumps up wind  works just ask any one who jumps a push bike or watch any bmx race but personally i would say its more in tecnique than in the board, its just more marketing bs.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 11:51:38 AM by supuk »

Eagle

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #76 on: February 10, 2016, 03:44:20 PM »
"Upwind in the bumps – This wasn’t really a contest with the All Star simply dominating. The more flexible layup simply shined. Bumps were absorbed with much more efficiency and leg pumping was rewarded with upwind squirts reminiscent of pumping a skateboard ramp. The Starboard dropped the SIC with relative ease. The 2016 All Star may be the best upwind board we have ever paddled."

It would be unusual for someone to make such a definitive statement if it had zero validity -> especially coming from a retailer review.  We have experienced something similar in steep and deep chop.  Where our curvy M-14 motors upwind in messy conditions -> our flatter SB Touring cannot absorb anything.  What seems to happen is the rocker and nose flex allow more float over the bumps vs pearling and stalling.  The stiff board pounds and pearls away making less constant headway.  It feels slow -> and is slow.

The same applies DW in steep and deep bumps.  The M-14 just floats over -> whereas the SB Touring spears making it very hard to plane.  In those instances we have to slow to the speed of the waves and ride along.  So in that way it makes sense that "The Starboard dropped the SIC."

The forward vectors probably account for the pull of the forward power stroke.  Simply jumping up and down will not do anything.  When we properly time a bump and unweight we do launch and plane with speed - and our big blade Riviera helps a ton.  Our smaller blades do nothing for that.  So when JR talks about "get a little bounce with the legs" -> makes complete sense.  But it comes down to timing -> just like all the various pumping examples noted by various posters in this thread.  We happen to do this all the time SB and skiing -> so maybe that has something to do with it.  It is a basic survival necessity down bump runs and when getting some air.

But "hovering" is a bit much.   ;D
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 03:53:56 PM by Eagle »
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

baddog

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #77 on: March 07, 2016, 11:53:20 AM »
As a weight weenie you know I believe scales and not marketing fluff on brochures.
+1

I would want to try that allstar myself, see what's all the rage about with the flex and all.

Starboard is a master of misdirection and marketing hyperbole.  I'm a Starboard fan, but it's speak is build purposely to misguide the competition and daze and amaze the masses.  I only dislike when I can't decipher what they are talking about and have to drag it out of them.  Drag is a bit harsh, they usually respond willingly.

But when it comes to this flex thing, I certainly know it's worth in the surf, but on a race board, I think it's just the nature of the construction and a brilliant spin on a lightweight build.  Maybe the flex is a benefit, maybe it's more down to the bottom shape.  We'll see if it pans out in the long run.

Area 10

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #78 on: March 07, 2016, 01:33:52 PM »
Well, on the upside, if you don't enjoy padding the 2016 All Star, you could just use it as a trampoline.

Quickbeam

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #79 on: March 07, 2016, 07:47:44 PM »
Well, on the upside, if you don't enjoy padding the 2016 All Star, you could just use it as a trampoline.

Now that's funny!!
Infinity Blackfish 12’ 6” x 23”
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 24”
Infinity Whiplash 12' 6" x 24 1/2"
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

coldsup

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #80 on: March 08, 2016, 01:01:07 AM »
what get me is that starboard can get away with calling it hybrid carbon but when you look at the specs it says the only carbon is some uni down the rails that probably amount to about $15 and probably less than 5% of the materials in the board!

 how much carbon do you have to put on a all glass board to legally call it carbon?


Yup - ridiculous as with the prices of any brand name carbon board in the UK.....

yugi

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #81 on: March 08, 2016, 04:49:40 AM »
^ honestly... is the carbon fiber itself really that expensive to justify the prices?

SUPflorida

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #82 on: March 08, 2016, 05:51:31 AM »
Yugi ...you can get 10 yds 5.6 oz 3k 2x2 TW 50" wide carbon twill cloth for $200...retail...so the big manufactures like Cobra should be paying closer to 50% of that...or $100.00 US for a full carbon layer top & bottom on a 14' board...subtract the cost of the glass it's replacing...so the up charge is not proportional to the manufactures increase in cost. Pretty much in any sport, you claim carbon in your product and the price plays as much, or more on emotion....
than it does in utility.

yugi

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #83 on: March 08, 2016, 06:01:53 AM »
That's what I thought

Area 10

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #84 on: March 08, 2016, 08:25:49 AM »
Just vote with your wallet, and help stop this carbon madness. In the UK you typically pay an extra £1000 for a carbon version of a board. Look up what 1000 GBP (Great British Pounds) is worth in your local currency and ask yourself how a layer or two of carbon fibre can possibly add that much to the price of a board.


You don't re-coup it at resale either. Depreciation of carbon boards from new is like pulling a week's wages out of your pocket and throwing it straight down a drain.

Quickbeam

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #85 on: March 08, 2016, 08:42:06 AM »
You don't re-coup it at resale either. Depreciation of carbon boards from new is like pulling a week's wages out of your pocket and throwing it straight down a drain.

I've heard this before. Any thoughts as to why carbon boards depreciate so quickly?
Infinity Blackfish 12’ 6” x 23”
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 24”
Infinity Whiplash 12' 6" x 24 1/2"
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

pdxmike

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #86 on: March 08, 2016, 11:00:45 AM »
Just vote with your wallet, and help stop this carbon madness. In the UK you typically pay an extra £1000 for a carbon version of a board. Look up what 1000 GBP (Great British Pounds) is worth in your local currency and ask yourself how a layer or two of carbon fibre can possibly add that much to the price of a board.

You don't re-coup it at resale either. Depreciation of carbon boards from new is like pulling a week's wages out of your pocket and throwing it straight down a drain.
There's some irony in spending 1000 pounds to save 3 or 4.

I'd guess the depreciation is because many people who are willing spend a lot for carbon's slight performance advantage are also the types that are willing to take a financial hit in order to get the most current designs (responding to Quickbeam's question).  It's not that anything goes physically wrong with carbon after a year, barring abuse.

Area 10

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #87 on: March 08, 2016, 12:02:11 PM »
Yeah, that's right, it about the psychology of the buyers. People buying used are looking for good value, so price is a major determining feature for them. People buying carbon boards new are looking for performance, and that is their major determining feature, rather than value for money, durability etc.

Fortunately for most of us buyers for whom price counts, paddlers are beginning to realise that race performance is 99.9% the paddler, not the board, so are getting a bit more circumspect with their money, I think.

raf

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #88 on: March 14, 2016, 06:27:15 AM »
Carbon boards depreciate more quickly than glass boards because they are over valued to begin with.  If you buy a carbon board you are practically saying "I am willing to over pay for an incremental boost to performance".  The glass version will get you 95% of the way there.  The carbon one will give you another 2%. 

Area 10

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #89 on: March 14, 2016, 02:25:20 PM »
Carbon boards depreciate more quickly than glass boards because they are over valued to begin with.  If you buy a carbon board you are practically saying "I am willing to over pay for an incremental boost to performance".  The glass version will get you 95% of the way there.  The carbon one will give you another 2%.
Much less than 2%. I've GPSed different versions of the same board very carefully and the difference in average speed is so small it's hard to measure. My theory is that lighter boards FEEL faster because our senses are more sensitive to changes in speed than differences in constant speed. So the stop-start nature of a lighter board gives the impression of speed whereas the heavy board, conserving more momentum, feels slower because the changes in speed are less dramatic. But the actual speeds over a decent distance (at least in windless flat conditions) are barely measurable.

Most people could race the AST version of their super-expensive carbon board and it would not make one jot of difference to their race results.

 


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