Author Topic: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout  (Read 40460 times)

Area 10

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #45 on: February 08, 2016, 11:31:09 PM »
Good points, pdxmike. And overall, I'm probably on your side of the fence here. However, just to play devil's advocate here, I'd guess that most people would agree with the statement that "in choppy conditions, a little rocker can help". They would also agree with the statement that "in flat water, a flatter rocker is faster". So if perhaps the paddler could co-ordinate the power phase of their paddle strokes with the moments when most rocker is needed, and the recovery phase with the moments when a flatter rocker would give most speed, then just maybe some flex might be turned to advantage?

However, once you extend this flex hypothesis to paddling in anything except chop, wouldn't you expect the board to be slower for the reasons pdx outlines? Rocker kills speed in flat water. So this would make the All Star fast in chop, at least once you have learnt a specific way of paddling it and become proficient at it. But then it would also make the board slower in flat water.

How much flex are we talking about, anyway? Has anyone tried resting an All Star on a couple of trestles and then standing on it (maybe bouncing up and down on it) to measure the amount of flex? Is it the whole board that is supposed to flex, or only certain areas such as the nose or tail? So many questions, so little information...

SUPflorida

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2016, 04:21:05 AM »
As a kiteboarder I can totally understand how board flex can work in your favor in traveling over rougher waters. I don't need to try work it out, I just know that it "can" so it opens my mind to be ready to think it might be OK. I was never so dead set against board flex, especially the 2014 Naish Javelin LE as others were. I've paddled one a lot and, in the past, have discussed this with pro-stiffnes paddlers and voiced the opinion it may not be slowing the board down when padding upwind in chop.

As a dinghy racer I also know how pumping and oching can be used, especially when  properly timed with the waves,  to generate more speed. I'm pretty sure my dinghy racing background, especially this aspect of it, has given me a good edge on others in downwind. (oops, my secret is out)

https://youtu.be/hEQttj8E1b0

I didn't know Starboard was hyping this flex as engineered. My reaction to that is the same as Florida's. Sorry, Florida, I wasn't aware of that hype. Gut reaction is they are just trying to call the flex they have in the light boards "not so bad". Once they start to claim they are engineering this into the board design as "storing" energy I'd also want to see some data behind it. Hard to do though.

Florida, I had understood it's an exchange of ideas. No worries.
Yugi...as a sailor I know where your coming from with the pumping and ouching...but I would contend it works on sail powered craft because your using the sail to work the boat against...same as you pump your sail and board simultaneously when trying to plane up a windsurfer in marginal conditions. It works great in those circumstances. In flat water and/or chop there is nothing like that to exploit on a SUP...just a board & paddle. SUP is really a different animal once you get away from surf oriented shapes...lots of new territory to explore...

Eagle

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2016, 06:12:51 AM »
Here SB seems to minimize their flex concept by reducing rocker -

"Flat profile and extended waterline performs with a linear glide, distributing the weight throughout the entire board, reducing any pitching or bouncing effect. The glide gives a hovering sensation on the water instead of ploughing through it."

Interesting ..... never have experienced a hovering sensation except when planing DW.  But maybe Connor and the like can do it when sprinting.
Fast is FUN!   8)
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SUPflorida

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2016, 06:28:24 AM »
Here SB seems to minimize their flex concept by reducing rocker -

"Flat profile and extended waterline performs with a linear glide, distributing the weight throughout the entire board, reducing any pitching or bouncing effect. The glide gives a hovering sensation on the water instead of ploughing through it."

Interesting ..... never have experienced a hovering sensation except when planing DW.  But maybe Connor and the like can do it when sprinting.
This is getting deep...🙄  That must have been a SB that Marty McFly had in "Back to the Future" 😏

UKRiverSurfers

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2016, 07:02:36 AM »
Burchas - I'm surprised you say the build of your custom FX isn't great. Is it a hand-built Maui board? I always thought that Raaphorst and colleagues would build a more durable board than Cobra, assuming the buyer hadn't asked for a super-light construction or something. Is this not so?

A10, i'm not an expert on construction quality, but my board is delicate, however, my case is a very
unique as this is a 2 piece board (hence the flex), so I can't even imagine what other factors are going into the construction.

That said, if not for Mark, my 2 piece project would not exist, I've asked about a dozen board manufactures if they can build it, they all laughed me off the phone, but Mark was like "Here in Maui, we can build you anything you want" and he did, and I'm a happy camper!

Ah - you're the geeza who ordered the 2 piece :)
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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2016, 07:08:32 AM »
What is interesting is that SB is pushing the flex concept across all their race board marketing - not just the Allstar.

Hmmmmmm - down stroke and upstroke??  8) ;D
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yugi

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2016, 07:08:47 AM »
...
I would also like to see first hand the Jimmy Lewis sandwich signature construction. It seems to garner a lot of praise.

We got a JL carbon Rail in our buddy quiver and I've been on it in light wind. Perfect finish as always. Beautiful paint. It's lighter than the Bullet V2. Will post pics in another thread when I got a moment.

UKRiverSurfers

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #52 on: February 09, 2016, 07:12:25 AM »
I wonder if SB have underwater vid analysis of this 'downstroke and upstroke' they speak of....?  :o
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Eagle

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #53 on: February 09, 2016, 07:17:12 AM »
This is getting deep...🙄  That must have been a SB that Marty McFly had in "Back to the Future" 😏

Gotta love the imagination of them marketing types.   ;D
Fast is FUN!   8)
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yugi

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #54 on: February 09, 2016, 07:24:15 AM »
...

Hmmmmmm - down stroke and upstroke??  8) ;D

Get up for the down stroke, everybody get up

https://youtu.be/1Kw2zSgm6BA?t=1h27s

Chilly

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #55 on: February 09, 2016, 08:08:16 AM »
Pumping a surfboard up and down to gain speed may sound counter intuitive but it works. So Starboards claims don’t seem so farfetched to me. Now hovering, I don’t think so  ;D but good marketing. Look what it did to this post.
I read yesterday Larry Cain is getting a 2016 Allstar. I look forward to reading his review. I just received mine 2 weeks ago, but have only been able to paddle it in flatwater, but so for so good. It's hybrid carbon so it doesn't have the extra flex. 
NSP 2016 12'6 Surf Race Pro

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #56 on: February 09, 2016, 08:27:21 AM »
Starboard score an own goal again, by the looks of it. They come up with an innovative design that seems to be garnering universal praise, and then ruin the effect through over-exuberant marketing claims. I wish they wouldn't over-egg it this way - it's the kind of tactic I associate with fly-by-night operations, not a premium brand. Please try to be classy, Starboard. A good product sells itself.

But if it turns out that SB have actually invented a hover board then I want one!

Rideordie

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #57 on: February 09, 2016, 08:27:27 AM »
SB also claims their SUP suit has advanced ultra flex and hyper flex material.  Their SUP paddle is a carbon super flex / multiplex flex paddle.   In their 2014 Allstar ad they claimed "super exotic Star Flex carbon" throughout the entire board.

...and now Like most creatures in the ocean, Starboards race boards have noticeable flex, thus utlising the energy generated from
the body moving up and down during paddle strokesthey flex "like creatures of the ocean"

....   Flex.....yawn.  Next year, they will push the limits.  Our boards have Gonzo Flex and generate Maximum Turbo Power like Arnold on a full hit of steroids pummelling the competition like girly men.  Ride SB or be Terminated!!  Take note Danny and Travis, resistance is futile!!                 
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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #58 on: February 09, 2016, 10:21:54 AM »
...

Hmmmmmm - down stroke and upstroke??  8) ;D

Get up for the down stroke, everybody get up

https://youtu.be/1Kw2zSgm6BA?t=1h27s

I love that album :)

Motor Booty Affair even more :D
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wannaride

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Re: 2016 SIC FX 12'6 X 26 VS Starboard All Star 12'6 X 25 Shootout
« Reply #59 on: February 09, 2016, 10:46:24 AM »
The Starboard flex is for real and is helpful particularly going into a chop and to some degree on downwinders as the nose will not bury as much.

My 14' x 28" All Star has lots more initial stability than my Bark Dominator of the same dimensions.  For that matter my SO has a 12.6' x 26" All Star that seems nearly as stable as the Dominator with significantly less volume.  Why?  It seems that the changing radius rails,  concave bottom,  buoyancy distribution and sunken foot box all help.   The Dominator is up for sale.  My experiences with SIC's is limited but the V2's are the downwind board of choice around here. They are very well made boards.

Starboards are expensive and so understandably people want to think that they can get an equal or better board for less money.   

 


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