sup foil dimensions

[loosehead]

think i`m going to make a sup with a foil.anyone have any general dimensions for the foil?

[surfcowboy]

Oh man, I got no info for you but  let me go make some popcorn. I've been waiting on a foil thread for a while now.

I'll bet that with some screen caps of the video of the French guys you could figure it out to something that would work. Please, please keep posting as you work.

If you need some computer help fudging the numbers get some pics and I'd be happy to assist.

[yugi]

think i`m going to make a sup with a foil.anyone have any general dimensions for the foil?

Actually that’s a very good question.

At first I obviously thought of the kite and windsurf foils that I have also seen work in SUP surf. They’ve been working them for years and the latest generation is getting pretty user friendly.

Then I realised that there actually is an answer for you. 7” deep. Well at least not more than, say 10”.

Why? Simple. For standup paddling the one thing that is totally, and I mean totally, always going to limit SUP foiling is that too much rise on a foil will simply make paddling impossible.

Our longest [race/touring] paddle lengths are about 8” overhead and our short [surf] paddles about 1” overhead so the obvious acceptable rise in board height is 7”. Kite and windsurf foiling travel at amazing speeds and need to clear chop so they have nice deep foils. We have pretty big boards and will never paddle at 30 kn so we don’t really need the deep foils, just enough to unweight really. Which raises the next two question:
- do we really need to rise well above the water is a foil which just helps us plane more enough?
- will foils role also be stabilising the board so we can go even narrower?

[supuk]

I have started on one but only got as far as making the main mast, I was just going on a that looks about right approach, for the mast I went for a xps foil I cut and then bagged with milars and using a load of carbon. I think for the wings I may just shape some balsa and bag it. I realy must get back on it as it was only the other day I was sitting at my local watching some perfect waves roll by that I think would be perfect. I don't think you need to go to high but it's going to give a margin for error when in control as every time the board contacts there's going to be a lot more drag and may take you off the plane, I'm shooting for around 15-20" but it is all just a educated guess.

[yugi]

^ and then just not paddle once on foil?

If that’s the aim then take a look at the kite foils. The North one is apparently very easy. Very high aspect.

Kite and windsurf is tricky where learning is all about the front/back balance/trim. Maybe SUPs are long enough and big enough to deserve an automatic trim adjusting rear setup  inspired from foiling Moths. Should be plenty around where you DW as the 2014 foiling Moth Worlds were held there.

But that all begins to get finicky and the beauty and attraction of SUP is the simplicity. Especially standup surfing. I came from sailing to windsurfing to kiting and finally to SUP each step for the simpler.

Maybe there is a real niche for some kind of mini foils in racing/open ocean/DW however. I believe all these efforts at outriggers on sups for stabilising are misguided but there is a real problem on how to best stabilise the boards out there waiting for an elegant solution. Already a nice deep fin is very stabilising, maybe some mini foils, a la C-Class cats could do that trick including lifting up on an early plane. Boards could then be ridden narrower, and plane earlier. Win win.

IMO C-Class cats and kite foiling is where foiling is at. Thus the place to look for inspiration. C-class being the epitomy of high tech development in foiling and kiting the epitome of simplicity. Kite foiling being a triple win for it’s speed, simplicity and ability to sail in v light wind. These things fly in the lightest of breezes.

For info C-class catamarans are the simplest form of “box” rule for cats, meaning within a few simple parameters everything to go faster goes. [ rule is simply: 2 crew, max 25 ft LOA, max 14ft beam, max wing 300 sq ft, no mechanical devices]
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_C-class_catamaran
Races are now run as “little cup” w ref to America’s cup and the class is viewed as a development area for larger super foiling racing machines. Again simplicity wins. Look at their foils, they have evolved to be beautifully simple.
   http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=c-class+catamaran+foils

Speaking of simplicity, here’s a kicker:
We had the C-Class cat worlds locally last fall. (Several of the high end boats and rigs are made locally).
- first one of the top boats crashed in high wind gusts and exploded it’s wing. End of racing for it (god knows their yearly budget, probably a few mil)
- then winds were fairly light and a 10 year old cat w/out foils, on a budget of less than .1%, or even, .01%, of the big teams) almost won
- and the best is the kite foilers were out and were matching or even bettering the C-class speeds (about 30 kn). All that at a budget of about 0.001% of the C-class boats. Guess who was laughing.

[yugi]

Bruno Andre has been at this for years, and he's getting pretty good. He's relentless at bring this to windsurfing spots so keep an eye out if he's coming somewhere near you and try his designs out.
   http://www.ahd-boards.com/models/sealion-wings-2/

[loosehead]

     saw these pictures on google .looks like 2 wings are the way to go
https://www.google.com.mx/search?q=sup+foil&biw=1393&bih=646&tbm=isch&imgil=nlORUc13CfjKjM%253A%253BYHLiaL9stiaKUM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fstandupjournal.com%25252Fnow-you-can-fly-on-top-of-the-water-with-a-sup-foil%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=nlORUc13CfjKjM%253A%252CYHLiaL9stiaKUM%252C_&usg=__J9nerQuEsxNyvZbESKlfzmxU9Bg%3D&ved=0ahUKEwii48qIutTKAhXC5iYKHVtEANoQyjcIKw&ei=ATSuVuLeOcLNmwHbiIHQDQ&gws_rd=cr#imgrc=noZGWRn7OGb4QM%3A&usg=__J9nerQuEsxNyvZbESKlfzmxU9Bg%3D

[surfcowboy]

What about one of the more flat and square box like foils? Maybe a canard at the front of the board for trim?

I'm thinking that there needs to be like 3 models of this built to see how to do it and also that downwind foils could be different than a surf one.

Check out Swaylocks for the guy that does the bodyboard build over there. He's just doing them out of flat aluminum and that might make it faster to prototype the low and boxy type.

[supuk]

Well I dug it out after a moment of inspiration and worked on it a little this eve.

[peterwSUPr]

I just ordered my carbon for a kite/wind foil yesterday.  There's a ton of useful information about DIY foils if you use google translate and look at what the french kiters are doing.  http://kitefoil.forumactif.org/c5-fabriquer

There's also a hydrofoil forum on kiteforum.com.  I think the average mast or strut length is about 90 to 100 cm on a kite. 

Note that if you are not mounting the foil in to a fin box at the back, there has been a trend to move the strut a bit forward on the board, and then have the front wing closer to the strut.  Roughly having the wing trailing edge at the front of the strut is my plan for mine. 

I don't have surf here though, so am not planning to SUP with mine.  I don't think I can paddle a race board up onto a foil.  Or can I?  Maybe with a telescopic paddle?  Or do I just choke up on a long paddle until I am foiling?  I think the stance on a raceboard would have to change a bit!!  I think I'll let someone else prove that concept before I try a flatwater race foiling sup.

Peter

[808sup]

Real?

https://www.google.com.mx/imgres?imgurl=https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31.0-8/10001095_745968565434226_653508144_o.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.windsurfing33.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p%3D644035&h=844&w=1498&tbnid=D7N4qqWn2HYLyM:&docid=zrRgZwU6U1f5vM&ei=QNa6VpThMojEjwP3l5CQAw&tbm=isch&ved=0ahUKEwiUgfu9xuzKAhUI4mMKHfcLBDIQMwghKAgwCA

[supuk]

Haha no that was a April fools a few years ago