Author Topic: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25  (Read 52702 times)

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4057
    • View Profile
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #60 on: June 30, 2016, 11:57:46 PM »
That is a (another) pointlessly rude reply, photofr. You do yourself no favours at all conducting yourself like that. Why do you do it?

If you want to convince other people that you have something useful to say, insulting them is not the way to go about it.

I was at a conference in Geneva this week and a couple of (French) colleagues of mine from Paris were there. They are some of the most charming people I know. But they were talking about the national stereotype of the French as being the rudest nation on earth, and how even they noticed a change in the manner of social interactions when they moved between French and French-speaking cultures and other ones. So maybe your behaviour is just a cultural thing, and you are unaware of it. So I am giving you this feedback in order to give you an opportunity to change, should you see fit to do so. I think you'll find many more friends here if you aren't so rude to them. If you want people to stop mentioning your undeclared conflict of interest then perhaps you might wish to find an alternative way of behaving, because being aggressive like this just invites people to keep it on the agenda.

photofr

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Dakine… fun
    • View Profile
    • Extreme Outdoor Photography
    • Email
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #61 on: July 01, 2016, 12:10:35 AM »
Give it a rest Area10.

You don't know a thing about me;
I left France at a very young age, and then moved to Hawaii, so you can't hardly blame it on me being French.

Perhaps you shouldn't confuse my bluntness with rudeness - but no worries: I clearly do not get offended as easily as you do. It's all good.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4057
    • View Profile
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #62 on: July 01, 2016, 12:31:22 AM »
I'm glad to hear that it isn't a cultural thing, and that it is just that you are rude. That makes it easier for us to know how we should respond to you.

Neither "bluntness" nor rudeness is a virtue if it's only purpose is to cause needless discord.

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #63 on: July 01, 2016, 12:43:47 AM »
So being only the second time out - this was an unmitigated success DB.  This is what I do to take a break and relax.  And can say anyone who is on a 25 and finds that too stable - should get a 23.  Without hesitation.  Was thinking on flat the 21.5 Sprint would probably be perfectly ok as well.  As noted - has a very odd underbody concept - but it somehow works a charm.  And can feel the deep concave like our Bullet when it slams into a wave.  It is a very specific feeling of slamming in control.  Power and balance wise - increased to about 85% of normal this time.  And sometimes was at 100% .  So progressing very nicely.  Would expect a couple more times out in windier conditions - all the bugs will get squashed.  Legs did not tire at all this time.

Just to help me put your comments in context - How tall and heavy are you and how long have you been paddling ?

I think the 21.5 sprint is going to be a step too far for most of us but I'm certainly curious to see how next years proposed 24.5 Allstar is going to pan out. If its stable (and particularly at that width), that board has masses of multi-use appeal. I also wonder if the large bottom concavities are here to stay as most other brands haven't replicated it yet. It seems to sound that these features are almost entirely responsible for suddenly driving the widths down.

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4057
    • View Profile
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #64 on: July 01, 2016, 12:57:10 AM »
A couple of things in that, ukgm. First, there is a pronounced concave in the Mistral Equinox too. It's not quite as large as the AS version, but it's probably big enough to be able to say that Starboard aren't alone in using this design feature.

Second, although the concaves no doubt help with stability, there are boards of this ilk that are very stable (for their width) without them. Examples are the JL Sidewinder, and Bark Vapor. Mostly their stability derives from a combination of the hybrid or prone paddleboard type nose, wide rails, and generous volume throughout. I suspect it is these features far more than concaves that create the stability.

photofr

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Dakine… fun
    • View Profile
    • Extreme Outdoor Photography
    • Email
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #65 on: July 01, 2016, 01:06:26 AM »
SUP and SURFSKI have one major common denominator: seeking stability.
In the surfski world, it's important to note that boat builders have been seeking stability by lowering the "bucket" (sitting area). In fact, they have lowered it so much over the years that pretty much anyone over 40 years of age could end up suffering while seated. This has actually made many paddlers slower.

In the SUP world, I am seeing similarities:
We are trying to make a board narrower, yet stable. To accomplish this, brands like SB have re-designed their hulls for stability and speed. Stability is simple: it's definitely THERE (just look at the 14x25 or the 14x23 Allstar).

Speed, however, is even more relative.
Do you really get more speed with from a 3x concave, or do you just get more stability?
No one has really separated that out of the equation, so the verdict isn't really out yet.

My best guess, as of right now:
Top athletes will totally benefit from the 3x concave. It seems to create more water friction and thus allow elite riders to bring their boards on a plane quicker. For recreational paddler, however, I am willing to bet that they will get more speed ONLY because the board is super stable. The fact that the triple concave is there will create more water resistance, and will make the rec rider slower (if we were to remove the stability factor).

I guess one simple test is to take a board that YOU find very stable, add a 3x concave to it, and compare extensive data. If you can tell us that the 3x concave made you faster, I will eat my words, but again, my best guess is that most people will gain more speed because it's more stable. In the surfski world, we have been saying for years: stability before SPEED.

The 2017 Sprint 14x21.5
It will have the 3x concave. It's very stable (for a 21.5 board).
It's feels fast, especially with its needle nose that finally pierces through water after 4 years of design.
If you can handle am Allstar 14x23 in somewhat calm ocean conditions, I believe you will have zero problems handling the new 14x21.5 Sprint - unless you weigh in excess of 80 kilos, and then your acrobat abilities may play a bigger role. 

The 2017 Allstar
The board will be tuned for 2017; basically seeing minor changes to optimize the board a little bit better, moreover: how early will the 3x concave start? Available sizes will be different than this year.

Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #66 on: July 01, 2016, 01:07:27 AM »
A couple of things in that, ukgm. First, there is a pronounced concave in the Mistral Equinox too. It's not quite as large as the AS version, but it's probably big enough to be able to say that Starboard aren't alone in using this design feature.

Second, although the concaves no doubt help with stability, there are boards of this ilk that are very stable (for their width) without them. Examples are the JL Sidewinder, and Bark Vapor. Mostly their stability derives from a combination of the hybrid or prone paddleboard type nose, wide rails, and generous volume throughout. I suspect it is these features far more than concaves that create the stability.

Yep, I had a brief paddle of the Equinox the other week as a lot of local guys have it. I found it very much like the SB Ace it was based on but didn't check how big the bottom concavity was. The SB concavity is very, very pronouced. Mind you, last years 'Race' had it and I was told that was tippy in comparison so you're likely right (the volumes of the AS are generous this year).

photofr

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
  • Dakine… fun
    • View Profile
    • Extreme Outdoor Photography
    • Email
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #67 on: July 01, 2016, 01:20:31 AM »
Small Emphasis:
My 2015 Race 14x25 had huge sidewalls, the standing area was so far above the water.
My Sprint 14x23 also has huge sidewalls, but the standing area is obviously very low to the water.
The Allstar 14x25 has much smaller sidewalls, and a standing area that is significantly lowered compared to that of the Race 14x25. To top it all, the hull of the Allstar has a triple concave that is light-years different and more pronounced than the Race. The Race had a hull that resembles more the Sprint 14x23.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4057
    • View Profile
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #68 on: July 01, 2016, 01:33:28 AM »
A couple of things in that, ukgm. First, there is a pronounced concave in the Mistral Equinox too. It's not quite as large as the AS version, but it's probably big enough to be able to say that Starboard aren't alone in using this design feature.

Second, although the concaves no doubt help with stability, there are boards of this ilk that are very stable (for their width) without them. Examples are the JL Sidewinder, and Bark Vapor. Mostly their stability derives from a combination of the hybrid or prone paddleboard type nose, wide rails, and generous volume throughout. I suspect it is these features far more than concaves that create the stability.
Yep, I had a brief paddle of the Equinox the other week as a lot of local guys have it. I found it very much like the SB Ace it was based on but didn't check how big the bottom concavity was. The SB concavity is very, very pronouced. Mind you, last years 'Race' had it and I was told that was tippy in comparison so you're likely right (the volumes of the AS are generous this year).
Yes, the Mistral Equinox is a very interesting design. I own a 14x25 Ace in carbon so it's been fascinating comparing the two. I'm going to write a review of the Equinox when I get a chance, so I won't say too much about it here. But I guess if I could find a phrase to sum the Equinox up, it would be "The Ace Killer".

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2016, 03:32:35 AM »
A couple of things in that, ukgm. First, there is a pronounced concave in the Mistral Equinox too. It's not quite as large as the AS version, but it's probably big enough to be able to say that Starboard aren't alone in using this design feature.

Second, although the concaves no doubt help with stability, there are boards of this ilk that are very stable (for their width) without them. Examples are the JL Sidewinder, and Bark Vapor. Mostly their stability derives from a combination of the hybrid or prone paddleboard type nose, wide rails, and generous volume throughout. I suspect it is these features far more than concaves that create the stability.
Yep, I had a brief paddle of the Equinox the other week as a lot of local guys have it. I found it very much like the SB Ace it was based on but didn't check how big the bottom concavity was. The SB concavity is very, very pronouced. Mind you, last years 'Race' had it and I was told that was tippy in comparison so you're likely right (the volumes of the AS are generous this year).
Yes, the Mistral Equinox is a very interesting design. I own a 14x25 Ace in carbon so it's been fascinating comparing the two. I'm going to write a review of the Equinox when I get a chance, so I won't say too much about it here. But I guess if I could find a phrase to sum the Equinox up, it would be "The Ace Killer".

Any chance of some test data gathering ?

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4057
    • View Profile
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #70 on: July 01, 2016, 04:28:38 AM »
Usually I find the best way to test is to enlist the help of a long-suffering friend who is of similar paddling ability to me and do a load of testing of two boards together, swapping them to counterbalance for order effects. Unfortunately the best guy for me to use right now is putting a roof on his house so is unavailable. And my own time is limited now because of work. So I'm just having to compare GPS data on set courses with historical data. But I do have many years' worth of that on set courses.

There is a substantial amount about comparing two boards that cannot presently be captured well with numbers. For instance, ease of handling when downwinding, ease of surfing etc. So until we get really very sophisticated with our testing, there will still be a place for subjective report, unfortunately.

yugi

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2228
    • View Profile
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #71 on: July 01, 2016, 04:57:02 AM »

 I’m certainly curious to see how next years proposed 24.5 Allstar is going to pan out. If its stable (and particularly at that width), that board has masses of multi-use appeal. I also wonder if the large bottom concavities are here to stay as most other brands haven’t replicated it yet. It seems to sound that these features are almost entirely responsible for suddenly driving the widths down.

Certainly true: “that board has masses of multi-use appeal”.

Complex designs are intriguing but simple ones rule. Especially when it comes to watercraft.

I ride a Naish Maliko. Crazy stable. So simple. So beautiful. So fast. I believe it’s the parallel outlines that maximise stability and planing surface. Here’s what it (Maliko) doesn’t do perfectly: turn. Of course you can step way to the back and pivot it. But a carver it isn’t.

The concaves shapes on the AllStar are not, by definition, going to be the slickest hull shape. Not all Starboard riders love[d] it. In fact. The purpose, I believe, of the concaves is to make it “playful” and turny in DWs. Which gives it precisely that “multi-use appeal”. That, right there, interests me. I’m a quiver-of-one rider. First it needs to DW well, then we’ll see which is faster on phlats.

Now just shave down that boof nose please, Mathieu, and you’ll have one more fan. The Maliko is a dream in sidewind. So right now it’s a trade-off. Sidewindability vs turnability. Turning is easy achieved by the rider taking a couple of steps back. Almost part of the fun. Sidewindability is crucial - when you have to do it, it is a major pain, and a lot longer in duration than the time it takes to take that extra step back.

« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 05:00:10 AM by yugi »

ukgm

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1255
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #72 on: July 01, 2016, 05:06:34 AM »
For instance, ease of handling when downwinding, ease of surfing etc. So until we get really very sophisticated with our testing, there will still be a place for subjective report, unfortunately.

A lot of this comes down to your intended use and creating tailored tests accordingly. All my purchases center around racing (and even then, flat or light chop based distance races). That makes my job easier as I'm not too worried about turning or downwinding. All I need to know is how well does it accelerate ? and how fast is it when holding a speed of 9-9.2km/h ?

coldsup

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1430
    • View Profile
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #73 on: July 01, 2016, 05:11:50 AM »
not worried about downwinding - gasp - where's the fun!!! ;D

raf

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1141
    • View Profile
    • soposup.com
    • Email
Re: 2016 Starboard Allstar 14 x 25
« Reply #74 on: July 01, 2016, 05:27:34 AM »
By the time I finally get one, the 1st 2017s will be out…and I'm a dealer.  Good luck.

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal