Author Topic: Geologist Informs UK Govt On Climate Change  (Read 13804 times)

UKRiverSurfers

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Re: Geologist Informs UK Govt On Climate Change
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2016, 05:41:02 AM »
I can't comment on this persons credentials but he is not alone.   I remember a very detailed article some years back in Surfer mag which outlined real skepticism within the scientific community.   One key point which I noted was;

....Many of my colleagues with whom I spoke share these views and report on their inability to publish their skepticism in the scientific or public media,” Paldor wrote. [Note: See also July 2007 Senate report detailing how skeptical scientists have faced threats and intimidation.

Someone once said "if I apply for a grant to study squirrel-breeding - no chance.   If I apply for a grant to study the effects of climate change on squirrel-breeding - game on!

Let's face it, no-one knows, climate does change.   Above all else we need balanced information so we can each decide for ourselves.

Exactly - Nobody really knows, so don't be a victim of

"end of the world phobia"

Embrace filth and pollution because it is US and if you hate it you hate yourself :)

Pollution is our friend that enables us to evolve as a species. So is climate change :)
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Tom

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Re: Geologist Informs UK Govt On Climate Change
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2016, 09:37:25 AM »
I found this article for US News and World Report very interesting.

Quote
Teachers Need to Communicate the Scientific Consensus on Climate Change

In the history of science, there have been few instances in which almost all experts in a particular field were in complete agreement. Climate change is one of those instances. Nearly two decades of research has converged on the following fact: Over 97 percent of climate scientists have independently concluded that human-caused global warming is happening.

In a new study published in Science magazine last week, Eric Plutzer and colleagues report a finding that should alarm the nation: Only 30 percent of middle-school and 45 percent of high-school science teachers in the U.S. are aware of the fact that nearly all climate scientists are convinced that global warming is caused mostly by human activities.

Here's the kicker: The authors explain that although many science teachers themselves believe that climate change is happening, because most are not aware of the scientific consensus on human-caused climate change many opt to teach "both sides" of the so-called climate debate, mistakenly giving students the impression that the basic facts are still contested, rather than conveying the fact that there is a deep and well-established consensus among climate scientists.

more here
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/teachers-need-to-communicate-the-scientific-consensus-on-climate-change/ar-BBpFVUC

PonoBill

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Re: Geologist Informs UK Govt On Climate Change
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2016, 10:12:18 AM »
Oh great. Yeah, that's the big problem with American education. More than 40 percent of Americans believe God created people 10,000 years ago. I guess that must be significant as well. Probably 97 percent of fundamentalist Christian ministers believe all kinds of interesting stuff.

My opinion is that climate change is a man-made phenomenon and we need to address it. But claiming that this kind of consensus doesn't exist in science about things that were proven to be flat out wrong is just someone pulling a story out of their ass. An actual journalist, if such a thing still existed, could find dozens of examples.  If someone insisted that schoolkids be taught any other specific thing I suspect people would string the perpetrator up. I'd like to see schools teach critical thinking, not the current beliefs. Science, math, geography, grammar, history, study skills, critical thought--that would be nice. Save the indoctrination for later.

I read Science magazine every week. There's an easily noticeable trend in the earth sciences for articles and experiments supporting current thinking. Science is NOT about that. I'm not claiming the quality of the science is lacking, but if people are not trying to disprove the hypothesis, then how is that science? It's the core of the scientific method. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2016, 10:24:21 AM by PonoBill »
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eastbound

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Re: Geologist Informs UK Govt On Climate Change
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2016, 09:57:55 AM »
but bill, is there such thing as unarguable science? there is for me. and much as people believe proven math, can proven math be taught as unarguable?


do you think that, among reasonably credible scientists (use your definition of credible) there is nothing like a consensus on this:

that we humans have changed and continue to change climate (based on what we spew into the sky).

that the change has been to warmer climate, on average.

that the change will continue and risks being irreversible.

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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: Geologist Informs UK Govt On Climate Change
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2016, 11:16:14 AM »
Universal flow........ We as humans are part of the universe, so we may or may not be doing the damage but that is irrelevant. We ARE nature and our damage IS natural :)
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SuppaTime

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Re: Geologist Informs UK Govt On Climate Change
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2016, 11:40:04 AM »
but bill, is there such thing as unarguable science? there is for me. and much as people believe proven math, can proven math be taught as unarguable?


Now that is an interesting question, whether there exists within science and mathematics, certain findings that are absolute and inarguable. From a philosophical perspective the question of how rock solid our knowledge is has long been beaten to death by epistemologists. But I would say that most, if not all, scientists believe that everything is open for debate. There are no sacred cows; nothing is inarguable. Even math, with all its rigor, is built upon a set of axioms that are subject to human bias and may not be true in all universes. Take Euclidean geometry which mathematicians once thought to be inarguable, but since general relativity is now uncertain.
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UKRiverSurfers

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Re: Geologist Informs UK Govt On Climate Change
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2016, 11:59:27 AM »
Not really uncertain - in fact, geometry is in the depths of string theory and membrane theory which is and will be proven one day, pulling together Quantum mechanics and general relativity....

Most will say thats utter crap though and its impossible to understand  intuitively but thats because they're all arguing over whether global warming is manmade or not.... :)
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PonoBill

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Re: Geologist Informs UK Govt On Climate Change
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2016, 04:40:42 PM »
but bill, is there such thing as unarguable science? there is for me. and much as people believe proven math, can proven math be taught as unarguable?


do you think that, among reasonably credible scientists (use your definition of credible) there is nothing like a consensus on this:

that we humans have changed and continue to change climate (based on what we spew into the sky).

that the change has been to warmer climate, on average.

that the change will continue and risks being irreversible.

Nope, in fact that's the opposite of science. Myth and religion is inarguable. Science is and must be arguable.

Even mathematics never deals in absolutes once you get past the most basic things. There is all kinds of trickery required in building models or creating descriptive equations because math has lots of potholes.  There's a long list of problems that are considered to be impossible to compute by any algorithm.

But I'm not talking about fine points, I'm talking about big, complex, core issue stuff that we truly don't have a firm understanding of. It may well be that 97 percent of climate scientists believe climate change is manmade and dangerous. I don't know where that factoid comes from, but I'm willing to swallow it, though as soon as I say Believe and science together I get queasy.

So what next--is there any sort of consensus about what should be done? What the ramifications are?

These kinds of statements get made with an agenda, on both sides. The only likely way to derive workable solutions that yield a positive result with the minimum of unintended consequence is a lively debate in the scientific community. That fact that such debate seems to be often chilled is a big concern for me.
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