Author Topic: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection  (Read 5317 times)

Beasho

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Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« on: November 30, 2015, 08:44:04 AM »
My daughter has decided to use SUP in her 7th grade science experiment.  The objective is to determine the different performance of paddles on board speed.  Bless her heart.

I have a number of GoPro cameras but suspect that there is something that will better measure speed, acceleration and collect data than playing back strokes on the GoPro and comparing distance over time.

Probably lots of options but if there is something I can order today that would get here for the weekend and cover 80% of my needs I would be excited.  If it had future potential too that would be great.

Glowmaster

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2015, 09:23:52 AM »
I use GPS motion x on a waterproofed Iphone.  Record track and analyze later on GPSaction replay.

This works well for me.  If you want to see individual paddle strokes you need a faster acquisition than 1/ sec.

If you get some tracks and need help analyzing them I can help.

eastbound

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2015, 05:34:41 AM »
i assume you will be the lab rat, beasho.

better load carbs!
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KeNalu Mana 82, xTuf, ergoT

Wetstuff

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2015, 06:39:17 AM »
Beacho,  I have a WP Fitbit adaptor that you attach to a paddle ..you'd need to have someone above my edu. level 6 to interpolate steps-into-strokes ..happy to lend for the project. 

Jim
Atlantis Mistress .. Blue Planet MultiTasker ..   Atlantis Venom

Beasho

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2015, 06:50:44 AM »
Beacho,  I have a WP Fitbit adaptor that you attach to a paddle ..you'd need to have someone above my edu. level 6 to interpolate steps-into-strokes ..happy to lend for the project. 
Jim

Fitbit could be interesting for stroke count.  However I think I need Speed and Distance as a primary measurement.  Does anyone have experience with GARMIN or some of the newer data collection 'pucks'?  Need to focus on Amazon prime delivery at this point.

PonoBill

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2015, 08:14:29 AM »
Well, there's the paddle pod sitting on my workbench in Hood River. A bit technical to get that going and not accessible quickly. I don't know of anything that exactly fits what you want, that's why I built it. Eagletree data recorder, accelerometers, vibration sensors and a GPS that snaps onto a paddle shaft in the same manner as that GoPro mount I gave you. Also a somewhat clumsy board speedometer with a dragged propellor spinning a shaft with hall effect sensors. That would all work, and the science fair judges are always impressed by cludgy electronics and raw data. But let's make it simpler.

A GoPro to record strokes, and a doppler GPS for speed and distance. The Garmin stuff I know of won't really work, though that never stopped anyone doing a science project. Velocitek is perfect, but a tad expensive unless you're going to keep it for yourself afterwards. It's got impressive specs, I could have saved myself a bunch of work if it had been available when we were starting Ke Nalu. Still needed vibration and shaft angle data, but I could have ditched that dipshit speedometer.

http://www.amazon.com/Velocitek-Makai/dp/B015FAPTAA  $339. How often do you get a chance to buy a fine piece of SUP hardware to support your kids science project? I say go for it. Made expressly for SUP. You're probably going to cost me 300 bucks as well. After reading the specs I'm having a tough time resisting.

If you wanted to work your ass off you could copy Jim Terrel's paddle stroke analysis and overlay a line onto paddle angle for stop-motion shots over a known distance. But that's better for just short runs.


« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 08:30:27 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Beasho

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2015, 01:46:25 PM »
Velocitek is interesting.  I would need to order direct with free 2 day shipping.

However, it will be a deal breaker if I can't download the data.  Does the Velocitek permit the user to download data?

The whole point, at least for this customer's long term needs, is to 'Show me the Data.'  This has become a stock response to every wild-ass claim.

http://www.velocitek.com/makai/

The Jim Terrell video is worth posting.  Now I might have to rig up some PVC floating pipe too:

https://youtu.be/e3uxyS-art8
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 01:49:45 PM by Beasho »

othpaddler

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2015, 03:32:18 PM »

Pono or any other posters.  Does anyone know how the Velocitek-Makai would be best mounted?  Would it be mounted on a Go Pro-style plastic mount glued to the front deck of the board?  Would such a mounting method be risky in terms of losing or damaging the device in the surf? (I guess no more risky than mounting a Go Pro camera).   Assuming its feasible, what would the advantages/disadvantages be for mouting a Velocitek to your paddle. 

I mostly SUS but do make out and back SUP runs when the surf's junk.  Even when SUS it would be interesting to have data on speed and total distance etc. 

Glowmaster

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2015, 03:46:13 PM »
Hey Beasho,

If you want, you can borrow my GT11 GPS high accuracy unit for the experiment.  You need to return it to me obviously.

PM me if you want to borrow it.  I am into supporting student experiments as a scientist.

This is the GPS I used to test the Makani fin line and it works well.  Data is stored on a SD card.  wear it or mount it.

As I always say, "you cant improve what you dont measure"

here's one from the GPS-speedsurfing site

"When the data drops the bullshit stops"  hehehe


ed
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 03:50:55 PM by Glowmaster »

Beasho

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2015, 04:04:22 PM »
Sheisa, WTF, ARGGGGG  :-X   :'(

From another post on the device:

Hi All,

I can shed some light on a few of the questions here! . . . The Makai has results mode which displays your maximum and average speeds, distance traveled and elapsed time. These results are on screen only and cannot be downloaded.

Charles Swanson
Sales & Support Manager
Velocitek

http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,27316.msg285113.html#msg285113

PonoBill

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2015, 04:08:19 PM »
Wow, what a terrible decision. They could at least have bluetooth for downloading.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

TEX_SUP

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2015, 05:00:40 PM »
Anything using stadiametric measurement (cameras and distance markers vs time) is going to be more accurate than consumer level GPS.

Plus, I think the photos and video would make for a better school level science project presentation.

Argosi

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2015, 05:51:09 PM »
A friend of mine had temporary access to a GPS unit used by Google for their mapping work. He put it on a few SUP boards for testing. The unit was sensitive enough and sampling fast enough to detect speed changes during each paddle stroke. He told me that he tested it with 2 race boards and it was obvious that one board slowed down more between each stroke. It would be nice to test different paddles with the same board. Too bad he only had it for just 1 session.

Another option for higher sensitivity and sampling rate would be to use a good accelerometer instead of a GPS. It can also give you analysis on a stroke by stroke basis. Larry Cain has done some of this with the Canadian Olympic team.

spookini

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2015, 06:31:51 PM »
"you cant improve what you dont measure"

That was the reasoning behind the seminal Kardashian sextape, as well.
Record everything.
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PonoBill

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Re: Measuring Board Speed & Data Collection
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2015, 07:20:41 PM »
The GT11 and GT31 are the standard for speed trials of all sort. But since most people don't care about 0.01kts accuracy they are out of production. There has been talk of something replacing them, but in the meantime, they sell as soon as they hit ebay. Probably more accurate than measuring speed photographically, and certainly easier.

There are all kinds of wacky things that affect the accuracy of speed measurement via GPS, but the doppler measurement is very good if there are enough satellites and they aren't all in more or less the same place.

I do have 100 feet of 2 or 3 inch PVC pipe marked in one foot increments with black tape and stuffed full of foam. It's next to the garage at my house. One quick trip to Hood River and you're in biz, Beasho. But I'd borrow that GT11 from glow.

Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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