Author Topic: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range  (Read 9873 times)

nalu-sup

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Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« on: August 30, 2015, 09:51:57 PM »
Over the past couple of weeks I compared a few boards in the 120 to 150 liter range, and thought that I would share my observations which should be taken with note of my limited SUP experience. I know that some will disagree with some of my thoughts, so these are not facts, just my observations. Rider: 5'11", 163 lbs, 64 yrs old, surfing 40+ years, wavesailing extensively for 30 years, waveskiing 12 years, SUP for 3 months (almost every day).

Fanatic AllWave 8'11" x 31 @ 150L  Very thick rails.
Construction: HRS construction, so fairly heavy, but completely bullet proof.
Paddling: Very stable with nice glide because the thick rails make it ride high in the water. This board is a pleasure just to paddle around on, more so than the others.
Catching waves: Easy because of the glide, and so gives the option of catching swells relatively early.
Speed on the wave: Medium. Because of the length, the thick rails, and the weight, everything seems to happen in slow motion. This is not necessarily a bad thing; you just need to be in the mood for flow rather than fast or lively.
Surfing: Turns nicely from anywhere along the rail. A little long and heavy compared to others. Rails are very corky in big surf for my weight, which can be a bit unnerving in big fast drops. An awesome board to build confidence and basic skills.
Out through white water: Great, since the pointed nose combined with the weight carries it over or through white water with minimal momentum loss.
Use: This is the board that I and my wife both learned on. It was perfect for that, but it does not see the water much these days.

Fanatic AllWave 8'5" x 32 @ 136 L  Moderate rails.
Construction: HRS construction, so fairly heavy, but completely bullet proof. This board does not feel that heavy on the water because the shorter length means less swing weight out in front.
Paddling: Excellent stability for a board of this length; more stable than the longer Speeed. Also nice glide for the length. Surprisingly little yaw for a shorter board.
Catching waves: Easy because it floats fairly high in the water which helps it to glide quickly.
Speed on the wave: Because of the extensive rocker and rail curve, it is not that fast unless you pump, which it is happy to do from anyplace along the rail line, in which case it accelerates nicely.
Surfing: Nice tight turns with more of a short board feel than any of the others. The very first bottom turn that my wife made on this board, she had a hilarious look of shock on her face from how tightly the board turned back up to the lip compared to what she had experienced before. Rails are much thinner than on the 8'11" Allwave which helps, but still a little thick for really big surf.
Out through white water: Very good due to the pointed nose, and the weight which helps to carry momentum.
Use: This is my wife's new board which she chose because of the amount of stability packed into a shorter length, but I get to take it out when I want more of a short board feel.

Sunova Speeed 8'10" x 29 ⅛ @ 130 L  Fairly thin rails
Construction: Fairly light. A very intricate and refined design with a clean bead edge almost the whole length of the rails, very sharply defined channels back by the fins, and a very solid look and feel to the board. The only minor marks up to this point are two very tiny spider webs from mast slams while getting worked in the impact zone while windsupping. I think that it far more durable than most boards of this weight.
Paddling: Moderately stable when paddling, or when standing in smooth conditions. Very good glide with very little yaw because of the straight rail lines. Very tippy for me in rough conditions. It is not the initial tippiness that gets me, but the tendency of the rails to really get sucked under by cross rollers with difficulty in stopping the rail from sucking me all the way over. If there is a lot of movement in the water, I need to either keep paddling or do a lot of bracing.
Catching waves: Awesome. The wider nose makes the board glide very early, making it easy to catch swells well before they break, and gives great stability if you need to jump up onto the nose to pull into the wave.
Speed on the wave: Truly amazing. It'll blow your hair back on just a moderate size wave, hits warp speed on bigger waves, and continues to surprise by making it through sections that you know most other boards would not make.
Surfing: Your stance placement has a huge affect on how the board turns. If you are a little forward, the straight rail line makes the board very stiff; you can pump down the line, but tight turns are not happening. If you get back on the tail, it changes its character dramatically and makes great turns. One of the most noticeable characteristics of the Speeed is the amount of acceleration that comes out of the turns, I am assuming because of the deep hard-edged channels that run next to the fins. These provide extra grip, and force the water to exit out the tail driving the board forward. Between these channels and the rail line, I would not call the board loose, but more drivey through the turns. It seems like 50% of the energy that you put into the turns goes into direction change, and 50% goes into acceloration. The thin rails give this board fantastic grip in big surf and create very little drag, making the board feel light and fast. Fun to work your feet like on a longboard, and run up to the nose when given the chance. The sharp kick in the nose rocker helps on late drops, but if you are angling a very critical drop, the corner of the square nose can dig into the base of the wave  sometimes, but it always seems to kicks its way clear. Overall, more of a longboard feel.
Going out through white water: I know that some will disagree on this, but I find it a challenge compared to boards with pointier noses. The very wide nose combined with a lot of nose kick, means that the board does not want to penetrate white water or a lip, but wants to abruptly rise up over it. I remember reading about a guy in the Mentawais who bruised  some ribs when the nose of his Speeed popped back at him instead of penetrating through the lip.
Use: This is my board for when the water is smooth, and I want to focus on generating speed, and playing longboard style. (I can still turn tight, but it is more off the tail like a longboard instead of off more of the rail like some others.)

Starboard Air Born 8'8" x 31 ½ @ 123 L    Fairly thin overall (3.7")
Construction: Brushed Carbon, VERY light, very expensive, and a little fragile. Paint on the rails chips off very easily, along with minor chips into the glass. I put rail tape along the rails after the first day, which I have not done on any of the other boards.
Paddling: Unreal stability, though more yaw than the others because of the curvy outline and the quad setup. I will happily take this out in wind and cross chop that would be a nightmare for me on the Speeed, and challenging on the 8'5" AllWave, both of which have higher volumes. I will happily stay out and surf in conditions that I would not stay out in on the other boards. However, this board paddles SLOW. I am not sure why, since it is a single concave and they put a flat rocker section in the middle. The board does sit lower in the water than the others, so there is literally no glide.
Catching waves: The complete lack of glide means that waves need to be caught a little further inside, and drops are often late since you need to keep paddling until the wave is ready to break, instead of being able to glide on the swell as you fade into the pocket.
Speed: The feeling of being somewhat slow continues onto the wave. There is a flatter rocker in the mid section for speed down the line, but it cannot make sections that the Speeed would blow right past. The board feels big and wide to pump down the line, though it can be done. The best speed is achieved by getting back on the tail and cranking hard carving turns, which allows the quad fins to start generating speed.
Surfing: If surfed passively, the board feels wide, and slow. It is happy to turn from almost anywhere along the curvy outline which makes it easy and forgiving. The board really comes alive if you can get back on the tail and get all of that width out of the water. Then the board accelerates, and cranks some very sharp carved turns carrying more drive up to the lip than the others. The turning versatility makes it one of the more fun boards to surf as long as you can keep going rail to rail. Though there are five fin boxes, the rear one is designed just for a nubster option, and is too far back to work as a thruster set up, so it surfs as a quad.
Out through the white water: Good because of the pointed nose and the excellent stability, but the extreme lightness means that the board does not carry as much momentum through the wave, and can get pushed back a little.
Use: This is my new board for any kind of rough conditions, since it makes it fun.

Fanatic Stubby 8'6" x 29 ½" @ 120 L  Moderate rails.
Construction: This is Fanatics lighter construction, similar in weight to the Speeed which costs a great deal less. It is not as light as the Starboard brushed carbon, but way more durable.
Paddling: Less stable than the others, but good for an 8'6" 120L. Very slightly less stable overall than the Speeed, but less of a tendency for the rails to suck under. Average paddling speed, similar to the 8'5" AllWave.
Catching waves: Very good; similar to the AllWave 8'5".
Speed on the wave: Very good, a bit faster than the AllWaves, but not as fast as the Speeed.
Surfing: Nice curve in the rear half of the rail line gives great versatility, very similar to the AllWave 8'5", with very slightly thinner rails which is better in bigger surf, at the cost of some stability.
Out through the white water: Again, the blunt nose does not pierce the white water or lip, and wants to sharply pop up over it which decreases momentum and stability.
Use: Though this board surfed great, it did not quite make our quiver since we already have the Speeed which is faster, and this lacked the stability of the AllWave 8'5". I think that it is a great board for the right person.

Thats it; maybe something useful there for newbies like us in understanding different board characteristics.
8'7" Sunova Flow 
8'8" Sunova SP25
9'0" Elua Makani
9'0" Tabou SupaSurf 
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Board Stiff

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2015, 08:28:48 AM »
Great review! I've been thinking about a board in this range to replace the Allwave 8'10 that I just sold, and this is very helpful. I wanted something faster and less corky at my weight than the Allwave, and the Sunova sounds like a winner.

Does your Zone name indicate any experience with the Naish Nalu? I've got a 10'6 Nalu as my only surf SUP right now and am curious whether the Sunova would complement this board or replace it. I find the Nalu really stable, but not very fast, at least in the small, weak beach break that we typically get here on the NH seacoast. I'm thinking the Nalu is great for rough water or when I just want to relax and not worry about balancing on a tippy board, whereas the Sunova can give me more speed and performance, especially on small/weak but clean days when I want to try to improve my surfing skills. What do you think? ???

SUPcheat

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2015, 10:54:16 AM »
If I continue to advance on the 134L Prowave, I was thinking about the 8'6" Stubby next year sometime. That one would max out any balance potential my body has I would imagine, unless I have more than I think.

After my knee got better, my balance maps have started to close in on the Prowave better a little bit at a time and I can handle it in moderate conditions though still a variable.

However, I am 50 to 60 pounds heavier than you wet with all my stuff on. It does not seem from your description that the TOMO types have that much extra stability. I guess you are describing dodgy secondary stability from the rail on the Speeed.

It does seem that 150 to 175 is the ideal weight range for male surfers. Those guys just automatically do better, surf better, and get more waves with less effort, but that would make me a skeleton.
2013 Fanatic Prowave LTD 9'3"x30.5x@134L
Sunova Speeed 8'10"x29.12@131L
Sunova Flow 8'7"x30.25"@121L
Carbon 9.3x32@163L Hammer
Me: 6'1"@230 lbs 68 years old

nalu-sup

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2015, 11:09:21 AM »
Sorry Board Stiff, no experience with the Nalu range. Since we live in Hawaii, my Zone name came from the Hawaiian word for waves or surf (which is why Naish chose the name as well).
If you are looking for something faster and less corky than the AllWave, I think that the Speeed would be perfect. It does not have some of the short board looseness of some of the shorter wider boards, but you cannot beat the Speeed for generating speed on any wave. Really work on your footwork and mobility up and down the Speeed to tap its potential. Study SupTheCreeks videos to see how it should be done.
I think that your plan to keep the Nalu for rougher days makes a lot of sense. Being an inch wider and almost two feet longer, I would think that it would have a ton more stability when things get rough or windy. If you are lighter weight and spend a lot of time on the Sunova, I could foresee that you would master your stability on it, and someday no longer find yourself using the Nalu.
You are probably already on top of it, but Jim K at Extreme Windsurfing is great at getting the Sunovas shipped right to your door with no hassles for a fair price.
8'7" Sunova Flow 
8'8" Sunova SP25
9'0" Elua Makani
9'0" Tabou SupaSurf 
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nalu-sup

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2015, 11:54:21 AM »
Hi SupCheat,
My own conclusions so far are that width equals primary stability, and rail and deck profile have a lot to do with secondary stability. A "Tomo" style board carries more width into the nose and tail, but at the expense of width at the wide point where I think it matters most in terms of stability. This has some big performance advantages in terms of speed, but does not necessarily increase stability. The Speeed and the Stubby both get early planing and great speed from the Tomo outline, but with wide points around 29, neither have excessive stability for me when it gets rough.
I think that you are right about the deck and rail outline on the Speeed being what challenges me in terms of secondary stability. I do love those thinner rails on a wave. I am wondering if the problem that I have with the rail pulling under has  more to do with the domed deck than with the rails. It feels to me almost like domed decks act like a foil that wants to pull under as water movement from the side moves across it, where as flatter decks are happier to level back out. The Stubby has about the same primary stability as the Speeed, but better secondary stability because of the flatter deck.
8'7" Sunova Flow 
8'8" Sunova SP25
9'0" Elua Makani
9'0" Tabou SupaSurf 
14' SIC Bullet 2020

Board Stiff

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2015, 01:07:30 PM »
It does seem that 150 to 175 is the ideal weight range for male surfers. Those guys just automatically do better, surf better, and get more waves with less effort, but that would make me a skeleton.

I guess I'm the exception to that rule!  :o

Zooport

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2015, 09:47:06 PM »
nalu-sup, nice job on the reviews.  I used to have an 8'11 AllWave and your observations are spot-on.  Now, how about some vid of those boards being ridden? 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 09:48:58 PM by Zooport »
8'6 Soul Compass
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Zooport

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2015, 09:48:24 PM »
PS.  If your AllWave doesn't see water these days, the resale value on them is pretty high.  I'll bet the market for them in HI is pretty good.  You could sell that one and use the money to get a different board.  The quest never stops. :)


« Last Edit: September 01, 2015, 09:54:36 PM by Zooport »
8'6 Soul Compass
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9'6 WaveStorm SUP
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nalu-sup

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2015, 10:43:50 PM »
Zooport; you read my mind. I am demoing another board tomorrow that would require selling the 8'11" to make room for it. If it is a winner, I will add it to the initial review page. The quest continues. ;D
8'7" Sunova Flow 
8'8" Sunova SP25
9'0" Elua Makani
9'0" Tabou SupaSurf 
14' SIC Bullet 2020

supthecreek

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2015, 03:38:54 AM »
Wow nalu.... you have covered more boards in 3 months than I have in 3 years! 
Awesome reviews.... you included a nice assortment of boards, covering different styles, that share a similar audience, and gave very concise feedback on all and how they compared to the other. 

This will be a valuable reference for folks in the market for these boards. Well done!  You have set a new standard for mini review comps.  I am copying it, to keep it handy. Thanks!

I also have to add that you have enviable access, to a wide range of boards.... yowza! 
Your comps match my feelings on the boards...  eerily similar..... except, although I appreciate the ability to surf the Speeed in a longboard style, I do most of my riding with the tail fully engaged and it feels much more "shortboard" than any board I have ridden. 
I loved your description of the Speeed turn.... because it is spot on.
Every turn brings a smile to my face  ;D ;D ;D

beached

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2015, 03:59:19 AM »
Zooport; you read my mind. I am demoing another board tomorrow that would require selling the 8'11" to make room for it. If it is a winner, I will add it to the initial review page. The quest continues. ;D

so true...the quest seems never to end. I've had Allwaves and was never particularly impressed by them. The rails are just too large for the board's size and it feels like you're standing on a tippy log, very corky too. The Speeed sounds interesting but i'm not a fan of domed decks and it sounds a bit tippy as well, albeit fast. So far, in my quest for the elusive fast AND stable board my best find has been the L41 ST 8'4". It is fast and somewhat stable, but still i wish it were a bit more stable. It does amazingly well in extreme chop, but i find it tippier when there are small gentle rollers coming at me from all directions.

Anyway, nice reviews and keep us posted if you find 'nirvana'.   

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2015, 04:06:10 AM »
I am wondering if the problem that I have with the rail pulling under has  more to do with the domed deck than with the rails. It feels to me almost like domed decks act like a foil that wants to pull under as water movement from the side moves across it, where as flatter decks are happier to level back out. The Stubby has about the same primary stability as the Speeed, but better secondary stability because of the flatter deck.

I agree. I just don't see any reason for dome. You can make a rail just as thin doing the deck flat.
I'm baffled by the real reason for loss of stability. One thought I've had, try standing on the outside edge of your feet and see how comfortable that is...not. Comfort just might make us relax. Relaxing makes us stable?

Zooport

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2015, 05:21:38 AM »
I am wondering if the problem that I have with the rail pulling under has  more to do with the domed deck than with the rails. It feels to me almost like domed decks act like a foil that wants to pull under as water movement from the side moves across it, where as flatter decks are happier to level back out. The Stubby has about the same primary stability as the Speeed, but better secondary stability because of the flatter deck.

I agree. I just don't see any reason for dome. You can make a rail just as thin doing the deck flat.
I'm baffled by the real reason for loss of stability. One thought I've had, try standing on the outside edge of your feet and see how comfortable that is...not. Comfort just might make us relax. Relaxing makes us stable?

Domed decks are tippier, but they are easier to turn and sink a rail, all else being equal.  I didn't like them before, but now I've become a big fan.  Just got an 8'6 Blair with domed deck and it blows my mind how well it turns and how easy it is to sink a rail for a tight turn.     

The domed deck means less flotation on the rails and that makes them easier to sink and turn.  It's the same thing that makes them tippy, less flotation on the rails.  This 8'6 is pretty tippy for its spacious 31.5" width, almost as tippy as my 7'4, but it turns amazingly well for such a big board. 

Domed deck boards do seem to catch a rail at the nose a little more, which is what I think you are noticing, but that can be dealt with using better technique and foot movement. 


« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 05:36:06 AM by Zooport »
8'6 Soul Compass
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9'6 WaveStorm SUP
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supthecreek

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2015, 08:20:30 AM »
Board Stiff....

I have the 8'10 Speeed and the 10'6 Alana (Nalu)
I thought Alana was a good compliment to all my shorter SUPs.... but since the Speeed, I am just not feeling it anymore.
I took the Alana out 2 days ago.... ho hum..... Rats!... Now I have no eezy peezy boards to ride. ???
This morning, I rode the Speeed in tiny, dinky, weak, knee high waves... it was way more fun than my Alana..... so.... today the Alana is outta here!

Board Stiff

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Re: Board comparisons in the 120 to 150 range
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2015, 10:36:32 AM »
I have the 8'10 Speeed and the 10'6 Alana (Nalu)
I thought Alana was a good compliment to all my shorter SUPs.... but since the Speeed, I am just not feeling it anymore.
I took the Alana out 2 days ago.... ho hum..... Rats!... Now I have no eezy peezy boards to ride. ???
This morning, I rode the Speeed in tiny, dinky, weak, knee high waves... it was way more fun than my Alana..... so.... today the Alana is outta here!

Hi StC,

That's interesting to hear. Are you saying that the Speeed now takes the place of the Alana in conditions that you would previously have used the Alana, or that you've just soured on it and now want a different board for those conditions or for longboard style surfing?  I just started another thread asking about appropriate board size if I get a Speeed and would love to hear your thoughts. I'm thinking that if I go relatively small, I may still want the Nalu for rough conditions in which I can't yet handle or even make useful progress on a lower volume board.

 


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