Author Topic: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes  (Read 5080 times)

bef

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SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« on: August 27, 2015, 10:08:21 AM »
Hello, been a lurker for awhile, really feeling the need to get into this sport.

Location: Northern Indiana and camp a lot so range up into Michigan, but not even considering oceans.

Demographics: Mid 40's, 6'5 and 265 lbs, NOTHING performance orientated about me or family.  Kids from 15 and down.  have boat, canoe, inflatable kayaks - family loves the water.  We tried a SUP once at someones house, kids did fine on it but I was rather wobbly, board was not very big so I am hoping that was some of the issue!  Kids loved it, so I want to start adding paddleboards to our collection so they can use them or on family outings.

Tried searching forums, didn't find much so here goes... (disclaimer: I am an engineer, so wordy!)

Questions:  Most or all the boards I have seen around here have been the round nose versions!  Don't think they are surf style, more of the general purpose all around boards.  But these are used on our multitude of small lakes, ponds or rivers around here and I am just wondering why the heck that is as opposed to more sharp front displacement or touring boards?  Is it just what is available?  Are they shorter?  Cheaper?  There is NO surfing or rapid rivers around here unless you get to the great lakes.

I will use this, so it has to be big enough for me.  That said, I can also see the kids playing with it when we go out boating and anchor.  So bigger is not a problem due to multiple kids on it at once.

I have seen the soft top style boards that are plastic coated foam, not interested in that.  I have a lot of experience in composites, so repairs do not phase me on an epoxy board, very capable there.

So been watching ebay or craigslist and there is not much around me, nothing in my size range or style.  So right now I am looking at the Isle phantom touring delivered for $845.  Seems like a great price, even if board is not the best.  But is it crap?

http://www.islesurfboards.com/isle-phantom-touring-stand-up-paddle-12-6.aspx

The shape looks decent.  For a displacement hull it has a bit of rocker in it so the nose can get out of the water.  Seems like it would support me.  Main concern right now is the almost complete lack of any feedback or reviews on them.  Lots of info by them on Youtube, hardly any by users.  Same here, most post are pretty old.  Great reviews on their website, but I do not know how valid to assume that is!

I saw a Raven by boardworks in another thread, it also looks nice and I get that it is a better board due to the $1600 price, but my kids eat a lot of peanut butter so cost will be an issue!

From what I have read, a displacement touring hull is the way to go for smallish lake or slow river paddling.  I just see a lot of surfing style boards out there, but know I will not surf it.  What am I missing?

Any current feedback on Isle boards?  especially the phantom touring 12'6" board?
Thank you for any help you can offer. - Brian

Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

hbsteve

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Re: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2015, 12:22:25 PM »
From a quick look at the specification:  The board seems too thin and narrow to float you comfortably.  You need volume to float you and width for balance. Also, at 39 lbs. it is a heavy board.
Review the gear section.  There have been discussions on SUPs for big guys.

bef

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Re: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2015, 04:49:31 AM »
From a quick look at the specification:  The board seems too thin and narrow to float you comfortably.  You need volume to float you and width for balance. Also, at 39 lbs. it is a heavy board.
Review the gear section.  There have been discussions on SUPs for big guys.

Thank you for the reply.  I have read that "BigGuy SUP search" thread a few times now along with some of the threads linked in it.  That is one thing that led me to the Isle Phantom Touring.

While big guy makes me look petite at 260+ lbs, he ended up with a round noser that had 253L and 36" wide.  Pretty big board.  Another member, BWilliam, came in at 260 and mentioned the LPC River Rover that worked for him and equipment.  That is 14' x 31 x 5" with 297L at 35 lbs.  Not bad, cost is $1650.  River rover is speced at 350 lbs capacity, that is 100 lbs over where I like to be, about 250 which was my typical weight for a couple decades.

My liter calculation is 180 to 240 using x1.5 to x 2.0
I have no concern about equipment, we have a 32' camper for that.  If I need supplies, they will go in the old 17' canoe or my 272 Formula!  So just me.

So I keep going back to the Phantom which "looks" very similar to the River Rover just 18" shorter.  12'6" x 31" x 5.5" with 256L and 39 lbs.  Yes, I agree heavier by 4 lbs, not sure I would notice that.  I have had 4 lb sandwiches!  As a snack.....  LOL!

I think I would lik the river rover, but it is a bigger board and want to stay with the 12'6".  Also want to stay with the displacement hull.  I would love to try one, but haven't found anyplace around here other than the friends house with the smaller board.

Thank you again.
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

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Re: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2015, 07:19:46 AM »
The LPC heavenly is a better comparison to the isle phantom touring I guess.  It is the same 12'6" x 31 x only 5" thick.  lighter at 31 lbs, so about 8 pound difference.  supports up to 275 pounds at 251L of displacement and is listed at $1450.  Displacement hull with a bit of rocker also.

Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

robon

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Re: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2015, 08:48:13 AM »
The Isle isn't much board for how much it weighs. The one positive is it might be very durable at near 40 pounds, or it sure should be. That's really heavy for a 12'6" board that doesn't have a lot of volume. Going by your physical stats, you need a high volume board, and mentioning you might have more than one kid on at a time as well, makes getting a high volume board more relevant as well. Big Guy was able to go lower volume because he got a board that is 36" wide and it is a round nose surf shape.

A board like the River Rover has a max capacity of over 300 pounds, but that statistic shouldn't deter you from considering a board like this. At your weight you should definitely be considering boards that can float upwards of and over 300 pounds. It's not just about the max weight a board can float but how well it can handle higher weights and still perform well. For instance, a 12'6" 250 litre board at 30-31" wide will float your weight, but it probably won't be stable, and will be lower in the water than what you want. If you want to put a kid on there with you or haul some gear, then it likely won't work well at all.  This is why you should be considering higher volume boards like the River Rover, which suits your height and weight much better than lower volume offerings. The 12'6" Raven at just over 30" wide has a good amount of volume and is a better option than the Isle you are looking at, and is also a fair bit lighter. Boardworks also has the Great Bear 12'6" which is a more versatile board than the Raven, and would suit your needs better. The Great Bear can float more weight than the Raven, has tie downs both front and back, and the shape does better in rough water. The Great Bear and the Raven are much more versatile options than the phantom imo. The 2015 Riviera Voyager 12'6" X 32" is well priced at 1100.00 and has 290 litres+ of volume with tie downs front and back.

Now is the time to buy with shops clearing out old stock and demo models. Big winds has a demo Naish Glide 14 x 30 going for 999.00 right now. Such a good deal and throw the recommended paddling weight Naish has out the window. That Board can float a ton of weight. Gorge performance also has one for cheap. They aren't light at 37 pounds, but still lighter than the Phantom and much more suited for what you want out of a board. Stand on Liquid, Paddleboard specialists, and paddlesurf warehouse have good deals on right now too.

Good luck.

PonoBill

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Re: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2015, 08:50:32 AM »
The Isle boards are pretty good. Their rep isn't great because they were one of the early container-load guys that used either knock-off designs or something whipped up by folks in China that had never been on a surfboard but build one heck of a lot of them. That, by the way, is the reason for all the round-nose boards floating in lakes. They look like surfboards. Some of them even work as surfboards. So yeah, pointy nose, displacement is fine for what you're after.

It sounds like you're fairly serious about getting into the sport, you're looking at forums and such. If you do, that 265 will probably be more like 240 pretty quickly, though that kind of thing mostly happens to the guys that paddle daily. Does tend to change your ideas about food though--any serious exercise does that. You might want to take the potential into account and get something that's really fun for you. A little wider and a little longer. And get a good paddle. This sport can add years to your life. Best exercise I've ever found, and I've been fighting the potential for being buried in a piano box my entire life.

For the kids, don't ignore the wavestorms and other stuff at Costco. Crazy cheap, and surprisingly durable. Costco even guarantees them. You won't find many shops ready to replace a board your kids broke in half, but Costco will. Not easy to break them though, they'll probably just turn it into a ragged thing, like that germ-infested stuffed Teddy you can't get away from a five year old.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 08:54:15 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

bef

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Re: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2015, 09:27:51 AM »
Thank you for the replies and some good points.  When you ask, you better be ready to be corrected!  And I appreciate it.

Did find some feedback on isle at yelps.
http://www.yelp.com/biz/isle-surf-and-sup-national-city
Good reviews, two negative but one was on the shipper (do people understand what they are reviewing?) and the other was about a crack in the board and water sloshing inside?  A hollow wood board, maybe used?  Didn't make any sense especially considering some of the grammer.  Good information on the origins of the business ponobill. 

Oh, and I love the " and I've been fighting the potential for being buried in a piano box my entire life"  We eat very good fresh food in my household, so healthy is not a problem.  Too much of it and time at a desk is!  I am also minutes away from small lakes to paddle in during lunch breaks or after work, so lots of options.

Very good point on the volume and weights, along with the time of year I am looking at buying robon.  I will take a bit of time and review their sites.  Other than the dick's or dunhams sport center big box stores, there isn't much around me to go look at them.  Bart's in north Webster is pretty close to where I boat, but not much on the website for larger boards.

Thanks again.  I will see what I can find.  And yes, I need to be at 250 or less.  240 is actually pretty light for me.  I was 220 when I was 21 and my wife says I was too skinny then.  Short of a serious amputation, 220 doesn't seem possible any time soon.

Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

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Re: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2015, 12:07:12 PM »
Update:
Thank you for all the replies.
I looked at a few of the used nicer boards and even some close out models, but decided to go cheap for the first try.  Even a used board at $1000 + shipping + paddle + leash was going to push me into the $1350 and up range.  Not bad actually, but never having stood on one other than a Costco board for 3 minutes, I was hesitant.  Time was not on my side, so I wimped out and got the Isle board I originally saw.  I figured for the price, who cares: the kids will like it, and it will give me a chance to try the sport out on a nice budget.  For that, it is working.

Main issue was I wanted a 12'6" board, wanted to stay away from 14'.  Also wanted at least 31" wide, but not much more since this will also be used by my wife and children.  Many of the nice boards I was looking at were 14' long or under 31" wide.  The Isle phantom touring board fit my size constraints and it was inexpensive.

I know, you get what you pay for and this is definitely a low cost Chinese board!  The finish is not as smooth as they show on the website, some dips and wrinkles in the surface.  Mat doesn't match up to the paint in one corner and other cosmetic things.  Paint was decent and glossy, but a few flaws I saw on the deck.  Also yellowish tint where epoxy was a bit thick over the bamboo.  But it was $865 delivered with a carbon adjustable paddle and coil leash.  Minus the paddle, leash and shipping I figure I paid about $600 or less for the board, and for that I am satisfied.  Anyone who expects a $1,400 plus board at that price point just doesn't get it. 

We have used it three times now, already scratched it getting it on the roof rack next to canoe, and submerged it with my wife, me and three children climbing on it at the beach.  It never sat still the 5 hours we were at the beach, constant use.  How long will it last?  I do not know but I know we will get our money out of it and I am not concerned about it.  It is a bit heavy, but at 265 lbs I do not really notice and extra 5-10 pounds.

The first time out I was wobbly.  So I paddled some on my knees and that helped.  Practiced standing in the shallow area.  The third time out I was doing well.  Had trouble in the wind and 6"-9" waves when sideways to them, but water was warm and it was fun.  Going into or with the waves was no problem.  Smooth water now will be nice which I will try again this week.

No idea what I will try next.  But thank you for the information.  At least I knew what I was getting into and the differences of a low cost board verse the higher quality items.  I know I wimped out on the purchase, but for what it will be used for it will be perfect.  As long as it does not delaminate, I think it will last just fine.  Glad I went with the touring shape.  Also satisfied with the 12'6" length.  31" width is definitely not too much, wouldn't want thinner.  Will use it more over the next week or two and report back.


Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

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Re: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2015, 12:14:06 PM »
Isle Surf:
Also got an email from Isle surf asking about the purchase experience and the board.  I am going to reply back with the findings above, will report what they say.

As far as ordering, it was very easy online.  The product shipped the next day and it arrived a couple days before they estimated it would.  It was very very well packaged but not overly difficult to open up and inspect.  Driver helped me open it up and inspect it, was not rushing or pushy which was nice.  Paddle looks awesome!  Nothing to compare it to, but I like it.  And the adjustable part of it was very helpful with the range of people using it.  leash is nice and heavy duty.  Thought it would be lighter, but again nothing to compare it to.  But it is comfortable and works.  Fin attachment was easy.  A bit tight, but guess that is better than loose.  And the pop out handle is a very nice feature!  Large deck pad is a plus.  I will have to post some pictures of the board with reflections so you can see the little divots in the bottom.  Nothing that will effect performance, at least with me.  But it is really the only negative on it.  A few cosmetic things only.

I am hooked for sure!  my kids and wife are also!

Brian

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Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

bef

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Re: SUP for lakes in midwest or great lakes
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2016, 11:48:32 AM »
Review:

Old thread, but wanted to post my findings here for others who search for reviews.

Recap: I purchased the Isle 12'6" phantom touring board with the adjustable carbon handle, added in the coil ankle leash.  Total was about $870 I think?

After using the board for about six weeks, it was put away until a warm day in December when we used it for about half an hour.  Then back in storage.  Not sure how many times I used it, but would guess around a dozen times.  Longest was one day in Michigan at Gun Lake where the family used it for hours straight.  This winter I removed the deck Pad from the board.  I had noticed indentations where I had been standing after paddling.  I assume this is due to compression of the foam core due to my 260 pound weight.  Isle did recommend this board for me, so weight was not an issue.  As suspected I found the foam had been damaged beneath where I was standing as tapping on the glass the sound changed when you got to the hollow spot.  I also found discolored bamboo wood around the deck vent. 

So in the end, my review about this board is really mixed.  minus shipping and the carbon paddle / leash, I figure the board had a sales price of about $600.  For a glass epoxy board with a nice pad, that is about as cheap as you can go.  But the old saying about you get what you pay for definitely holds true.  The board would probably work for a few more years before I had real trouble with it, so $200 a year for a 12'6" board might not be bad.  Or for a lighter rider.  But DO NOT expect a real nice durable quality construction board at this price point.  It is not 80% of the board for 40-50% of the price.  It is 40-50% of the board for about 2/3 of the board quality is my guess.  It was a cheap board for me to try and experiment on, for that it worked.  It will let you know if you want to get a quality board, or cut your losses and try something else.  I suspect this is the case with many of these chinese epoxy boards, you take your chances and I understand that.  So I will not say this is garbage, as that would be a lie.  It is of mediocre construction quality that looks pretty good and performs OK.  If you are harder on stuff, move on.  If you use it occasionally and are easy on it, might work out well.  I think that is a fair review judged against the price point.

Still happy with the paddle, it is decent for the price and pretty light weight.  The weight listed online was accurate.  Leash is nice and heavy duty as well, happy with that.  Positive review for Isle Surf as a company - great to order from and shipped fast.  Cheap board, cheap price.  You decide if it is worth it to you.

Search words:
Isle surf paddle board customer review SUP phantom touring epoxy carbon paddle adjustable 12'6" 12-6
Why did I ever get into water sports - should have choose something less costly and disruptive to the family.  Like drugs and hookers....

 


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