Author Topic: Leash Use.  (Read 63521 times)

Badger

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2015, 09:37:45 AM »
So are you one of those guys that straps his PFD to the deck?

It's hard to get through all of the pissing and moaning here about leashes/pfds/government regulations, complaints that make many of you seem grumpy and selfish.

The industry has done a great job selling the sport, but not so great in education users about safety.

Many of you fail to see the value in redundant safety practices, ie downwinders with a type of leash AND at least an inflatable belt pfd. There are a whole bunch of variables that can impact ones ability to self rescue let alone swim; perhaps the biggest being fatigue and weather conditions.

The only time I wear my belt PFD is on downwinders or any situation where my board could get away from me if for some reason my leash broke. All other times it stays on deck as a useless compliance.

Do you wear a helmet and eye protection when you drive? That would save tons of lives and prevent countless injuries.

Does your car have a roll cage? If you drive a convertible and get rolled over, you are very likely not going to survive it.

There is absolutely no reason to wear a PFD on calm protected water as long as you are wearing a leash.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 09:50:44 AM by Badger »
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Chan

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2015, 10:06:18 AM »
For SUP schools, rentals, and shops leashes and PFDs make a lot of sense. Leashes and a PFD for SUP Yoga with your pup on Lake Serene a lot less so. 

pdxmike

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2015, 11:05:11 AM »
It's hard to get through all of the pissing and moaning here about leashes/pfds/government regulations, complaints that make many of you seem grumpy and selfish.
?

thorn

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2015, 11:43:53 AM »
gah. so confusing. I will mostly be on a river - a small, slow river - no rapids in the places I will be most, only one section with class 1 or 2 rapids anywhere along the 48 mile stretch. leash or no leash? quick release leash? leash plus knife?

pdxmike

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2015, 11:45:47 AM »
For SUP schools, rentals, and shops leashes and PFDs make a lot of sense. Leashes and a PFD for SUP Yoga with your pup on Lake Serene a lot less so.
Chan--there's a brilliant safety point to what you said that may not be obvious to everyone.

As you posted a while ago, there's a lot more to safety than pfds and leashes.  Swimming ability, safety plans, thinking through what you'll do if your gear fails...

I agree with people who say it's important to have some redundancy in safety, so you're not doomed if you're unlucky enough to have even 3 or 4 safety strategies all fail at once.  But there really is a point where the redundancy gets ridiculous.  A woman with swimming ability in a SUP yoga group, but no pfd or leash, is not ignoring safety.  She's already using four safety strategies that I'd say are all as or even more effective than pfds or leashes.  She can swim, she's in calm water, she's near shore and onshore help, and she's in a group.  I'd say she's as least or more safe than most solo paddlers, even if the solo paddler is a swimmer in good conditions, with a pfd and leash. 

So when someone questions the need (and especially legal requirements) for pfds and/or leashes in all situations, it doesn't mean they're anti-safety.  They just recognize that very strong safety levels can be achieved without both, and even without either. 

By the way for questioners, I wear a leash and inflatable pfd almost always, and think the "Leashes Save Lives" campaign is great.  Unless it's handled badly, I don't see problems arising with people using leashes when they shouldn't, or the campaign causing a new slew of regulations.  I think the people involved in carrying it out are well aware of the nuances.

« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 11:50:47 AM by pdxmike »

PonoBill

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #80 on: August 27, 2015, 12:04:26 PM »
gah. so confusing. I will mostly be on a river - a small, slow river - no rapids in the places I will be most, only one section with class 1 or 2 rapids anywhere along the 48 mile stretch. leash or no leash? quick release leash? leash plus knife?

I'd use a PFD with a belt leash. If the current is fast enough to have rapids at all there's risk of entanglement, and equal risk that your board might head off without you. Small rivers tend to have a lot of crap on the bottom, like sunken logs with lots of branches, root balls, old tractors.
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stoneaxe

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #81 on: August 27, 2015, 12:08:14 PM »
I think we will soon be screwed. Bureacrats like black and white....no PFD=ticket is easy for them to remember. I hope it's not soon....no PFD being worn=ticket. They don't like nuances and to them a leash is a nuance.
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kjulks

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #82 on: August 27, 2015, 12:12:10 PM »
gah. so confusing. I will mostly be on a river - a small, slow river - no rapids in the places I will be most, only one section with class 1 or 2 rapids anywhere along the 48 mile stretch. leash or no leash? quick release leash? leash plus knife?
The main thing with rivers isn't rapids, it's the current in general. If you were to snag on anything, you're likely to fall off, and one of two things happens: 1) Your board wants to be buoyant and keep moving downriver, and whatever your leash is snagged on pulls your ankle down towards it. This can pull your head under and hold you there. 2) Your board becomes the stationary object of the snag, and you move downriver from it, but you're still attached, and the water pushes you away from your ankle, horizontal and most likely under water.

You want to be able to detach your leash in either scenario, but then you've just detached yourself from the giant PFD that is your board. This is why I'd say use a PFD on rivers. Leashes are great, they'll keep you with your board, but they can be a hazard. If you're going to use one, don't leave a big loop behind you, and be able to get out of it.

thorn

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #83 on: August 27, 2015, 12:13:37 PM »
Small rivers tend to have a lot of crap on the bottom, like sunken logs with lots of branches, root balls, old tractors.

lol! well, hey, at least one worry I can cross off my list. way too shallow for a tractor ;D

Bean

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #84 on: August 27, 2015, 03:49:21 PM »
If you're going to use one, don't leave a big loop behind you

Just keep in mind, you can't avoid having a big loop behind you when you take a spill...

PonoBill

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #85 on: August 27, 2015, 05:20:13 PM »
This is leftover from this morning--apparently I hit post and it didn't go. No idea what I was responding to, but what the heck:

Unfortunately that would never happen. For the same kind of reason that the Coast Guard requires boats to have PFDs. You can take a whole bunch of safe boating classes before you set foot in your new boat--at least one tenth of one percent of people do that. Or you can require people to have PFDs in the boat and have them already on any minors. Not a perfect regulation, but an understandable compromise.

I confess I'm kind of shocked that we haven't lost droves of people the way most people rent a SUP. Wobbling off to the middle of the Columbia, half a mile from shore, no leash, PFD tied to the deck, paddle backwards, all alone. How are these people surviving their first fall?

And yes, I get kjulks argument. Profoundly true. The answer is that where there's risk of entanglement you need to wear the PFD instead of the leash. But who tells everyone that? How do you educate people about something that's a casual choice on a hot summer day? We can't really teach people how to drive a car safely. "Seat belts save lives unless they jam and you burn to death". Not a great safety slogan. Airbags required even though they snap the neck of anyone a little too small or sitting a little too close.

Far more common dangers. Worse yet is that airbags, and seatbelts, and antilock brakes encourage people to take greater risks and endanger other people more than the selfish bastard looking down at his cellphone while driving.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2015, 05:25:42 PM by PonoBill »
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Easy Rider

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2015, 09:32:14 AM »
^^^ Agreed Bill. 

I think what a lot of people are losing track of here - is that the idea of promoting leash use is not for "us experienced paddlers". 
It is for the absolute beginner / the newbie / the first timer / the rental person / the Costco board purchaser / the on line "click and buy" beginner / what ever you want to call them - they are the one that truly needs the message of Leashes Save Lives! 

Grab any copy of a SUP magazine - flip through it and count the number of flat water photos where the paddlers are not wearing leashes (better yet - count those that ARE wearing leashes - it will be way easier to count).  I did it the other day to one of the 3 main North American SUP Mags - and the number of people on flat water (I didn't bother with surfing - because they all get the leash "thing") - and it was 5 with leashes and 44 with out.  No wonder the "general public" feel that there is no need to wear a leash. 

Also - it won't be a tragic event like what happened at the Gorge (high profile / experienced paddler / in "extreme conditions") that changes actual governmental legislation - it will be the son / daughter / wife / etc. of some elected official who suffers the same fate - on a glassy calm lake. 

So please stop arguing about "rights being taken away" or "sometimes leashes can kill you" - - and lets just get the message across and educate people that Leashes do in fact save lives!

Thank you
Warren Currie
Easy Rider is the name of my store in Edmonton, AB, Canada.
My name is Warren Currie . . . and we SUP Surf indoors . . . in a shopping mall!

robon

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #87 on: August 28, 2015, 10:00:17 AM »
Great thread and thanks to Warren for starting this and sending the word out to so many people. Long overdue.

I also agree with kjulks mentioning that "We can't take the issue of safety and apply a one-size-fits-all mentality". So true and education is key here, and there is much more to paddling than simply throwing on a PFD and a leash. Conditions and location dictate what type of gear to use. White water paddlers frequently use a quick release leash and I liked using the quick release set up on whitewater this summer. A standard leash in whitewater is a hazard. A surf type leash that trails behind the board can be a hazard on even a glassy lake or river if it catches on a dead head, or if wind suddenly picks up. Coiled leashes are much safer than a standard surf leash for inland and calm rivers where a straight leash can trail behind 10 feet in the water if not coiled up on the board. Waist PFDs can be very awkward to use if not educated on them properly  , and  might not work at all if said person does not stay calm, or isn't a strong swimmer.

Lots to consider here for first time paddlers, and much of the onus is on those of us that have been doing this for awhile and for business owners in particular. I rented a 14 foot board last summer and wasn't even given the option for a leash. I told the shop employee straight up that it's sketchy practice not to have mandatory leashes with their rentals. I think it will get better over time, but unfortunately it seems to be the mishaps/tragedies that make people wake up and get educated.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 10:03:08 AM by robon »

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #88 on: August 28, 2015, 10:24:20 AM »
This from the ACA:

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.americancanoe.org/resource/resmgr/sei-documents/aca_sup_survey_report_2012.pdf

"Leashes are another crucial piece of equipment in numerous situations, know which style to wear and in what venue, and know when not to wear a leash
o Wear an appropriate leash in the surf zone
o Know when to wear a leash and when not to when paddling in moving or whitewater"

Also of note that at least 2 of the SUP fatalities that occurred the paddler was wearing an inflatable PFD that was never inflated.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2015, 10:30:11 AM by Admin »

Easy Rider

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Re: Leash Use.
« Reply #89 on: August 28, 2015, 10:29:57 AM »
AGAIN - The collective "WE" of the SUP industry are not trying to  "mandate" leash use in white water. 
No - "I just bought my first board at Costco" person is going to go and try white water. 

PLEASE stop arguing about leashes in white water use.   

The percentage of all paddlers that "do" white water is less than 1%  (not saying they are not important to educate as well - just that they WILL have some sort of experience already).

Easy Rider is the name of my store in Edmonton, AB, Canada.
My name is Warren Currie . . . and we SUP Surf indoors . . . in a shopping mall!

 


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