Author Topic: Can ride down the line....whats next?  (Read 7716 times)

WhatsSUP

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Can ride down the line....whats next?
« on: July 26, 2015, 12:42:32 PM »
All: I''ve watch lots of videos here and on youtube as well as posted a couple of my own here.  My question is: what's next in terms of progression?  Nearly all of my experience to date has been in ankle to waist high and I feel generally pretty good in paddling/catching waves of the size I mention, as well as determining what direction to go down the line.  But now I'm kinda at a lose for what I should be working on next(?)  Tight bottom turn, reversing direction, kick outs, moving around the board more, etc?  FWIW, on a couple of rides (none unfortunately on video) I seemed to find a bit of a sweet spot and found that I could "pump"  (okay, emphasis on little pumping) my 9'5" Allwave as I rode down the line up a bit on the face of the wave..if that makes sense. 

Appreciate any/all suggestions.  (I posted my most recent video over in "Sessions" which I believe will quickly point to my limited ability).

Meanwhile, I'll continue to repeatedly watch David Johns, SuptheCreek, SurferCook, and others videos which I find super interesting!

Thanks!!!!!!!

 
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stoneaxe

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2015, 12:57:11 PM »
All of the above. You might pick one thing to focus on each time out but it's all of them. Maybe the 1st focus would be moving around more and tight turns because pretty much everything else is dependent on them.
Every board has a sweet spot for pumping for speed, most just forward of the handle if its balanced right. Pumping for speed means your board is trimmed to have most of the water pushed by the pumping coming off the tail. Speed lets you take a higher line down the face. You also want to learn to compress and release through your turns. That's like pumping on steroids and its how you get around sections. Next is throwing buckets and aerials....I'm afraid we'll both need lessons on those though........ ;)
Bob

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WhatsSUP

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2015, 01:05:10 PM »
Thanks Stone! 

For whatever reason, all I keep thinking about is going out and trying to go out, catch a wave and immediately try a quick kickout in an effort to turn the board wicked fast.....but that seems like such a waste of a ride.

I can throw "buckets" pretty good already......afraid its as a result of my body going splashdown tho....   :o
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southwesterly

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2015, 02:29:50 PM »
You will really decrease your wave time if your best move is a kick out.
Next time you start your patented kick out, redirect and aim back towards the beach.
Bingo! Now you've got the bottom turn off the lip combo.

Practice this for the next 40 years.

WhatsSUP

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2015, 11:18:15 AM »
SW:  This may sound crazy as I've seen what you describe a million times in videos, but reading your written work resonates...so simply put, yet as I sit here pondering the move I'm trying to visualize some of the basic steps in performing the move.

I can visualize the initial sequence steps; a) catch wave, gain speed and get out in front of wave a bit, then get left foot back (I'm goofy) on tail and front foot toward inside rail, compress, and turn....followed by (?????)  Assuming these initial steps are about right, I have nary a clue what follows! Hope you and the others can shed additional light.

Thanks in advance!
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southwesterly

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2015, 02:42:04 PM »
Hey WhatsSup!

Sorry just had to say that.
The bottom turn off the lip combo is like peddling a bike. You've already got the bottom turn down if you have kick-outs wired. After your bottom turn you should be heading towards the lip of the wave. About mid-face, start to put weight on your back foot. The farther back your foot is the better. This frees up the rails on the nose of the board. Now push hard on the back foot and make the nose of your board aim towards the beach. Buckets will be thrown as you redirect back down the face.

Repeat.

PonoBill

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2015, 03:34:33 PM »
Actually there are not many good instructional SUP videos around, but there are lots of good ones for longboards. there's a japanese one that's just tremendous.

The other big thing to learn is to cross-step. If you can do that fluidly on a board your surfing will open up. People who never get there have a handicap.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2015, 07:56:10 PM »
A strong bottom turn will serve you well. It'll also lead you to the top turn as was said. Get back on your board and be willing to fall as you try. You'll make it more than you know and one of those times it'll click and you'll have it.

As was said, you can work on this one for 40 years. That is true, but it's a fun 40.

WhatsSUP

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2015, 06:36:45 AM »
PonoBill:  Is this the one you're referring too?  Looks pretty good!!

http://alohaki.jugem.jp/?search=cross+step

As far as bottom turn to a cutback off the lip, I'm trying to figure out how to avoid getting smacked in the face with the board!   :o
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linter

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2015, 06:44:07 AM »
  if that's the one bill is referring to, it's great.  the guy behind it -- goes by the name of ramrod -- has become a friend of mine and he's helped me a lot in various ways.  in fact, we're thinking about taking a number of his blogposts, expanding on them, and cobbling them together into an ebook to put up on Amazon.  wingnut's book on longboarding is about the best one out there at the moment; ram's would blow it away, imho.

PonoBill

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2015, 04:17:56 PM »
that's the guy, great instruction and focus on the elements that make a difference. No good for thge hack and slash set, but if you want to be fluid and conrolled on your board, study those lessons. And cross-step. I just cross-stepped across my shop to find the right size drill and put some tools away, now I'm going to cross step to the drill press and get the broken screws out of my limited slip differential. Don't forget to cross step backwards too. You can't shuffle back off the nose of your board.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SUPJorge

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2015, 07:33:33 AM »
Funny thing, I can cross-step backwards no problem but have significant difficulty cross-stepping forward. It's not for fear of going forward because I get up there all the time, it's just via a cumbersome shuffle. I spent some time in high school practicing running backwards as fast as possible (football DB) and maybe that mental wiring has stayed with me, but there's some kind of block to cross-stepping while moving forward. Anyone else have this back-easy/forward-hard problem?   
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supthecreek

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2015, 09:28:33 AM »
WhatsSUP. a good way to approach improving is to understand what surfing is.

Surfing is falling (as in gravity) .... we are not pushed by waves..... we fall. (except see below)

As the wave steepens, we paddle to reach a speed that helps us get to the right place on a building wave.

When we "catch" the wave, we have simply gotten to a steep enough part of the wave, with enough paddling speed.... then we feel the "release" and we fall towards the bottom of the wave.
If we keep going straight towards shore, the wave will either run us down, or the whitewater will "push" us slowly towards shore.
Once a wave "breaks".... the stationary water is given motion, as the energy carries it towards shore.

Ultimately, what we want to do is take the speed we get from our initial "fall" and return to the "top", so we can "fall" again.
To do this, we use our speed achieved through falling, and use it to make a bottom turn.
The bottom turn heads ups back to the top.
If we don't make a "top" turn... we simply kickout.
The top turn redirects us, so we can fall again and pick up speed.

Even when we go "straight" across a wave face.... we are falling
"trimming" is simply the act of falling sideways down the wave, at the same speed the water is rushing up the face.
Until a wave has broken.... the water does NOT move.
Watch a seagull or surfer sit in the water as a wave passes under them..... the "wave" goes by them towards shore... but the water does not move.

Take a long rope and lay it straight out on the ground.... go to one end, grab the end of the rope and shake the rope in big up and down motions.
The rope never moves, but a "wave" runs down the length of rope, with high and low spots.
The energy moves.... not the rope. Same with waves.

SO.... as the wave moves towards shore, the water is rushing up the "face" of the wave, as the energy moves through the water.
When you are surfing "straight" across a wave face, there is a lot going on.
let's say you are going "right" and the shore is a straight beach to your left....

You are going "straight"in the direction of your board
You are sliding (falling) down the face sideways to your left
You are getting carried up the face, from the "still" water that the wave is passing through... giving the water an "apparent" speed... at a speed that matches your fall
and the whole mess is moving ever closer to shore ;D

recap: you are going, straight, down, up and sideways toward shore.... all at the same time.
Very sensual! It is the magic that is surfing.

The fun of surfing is deciding what to do with all that available energy.

once you leave the "trim" plane, things get interesting.
A turn is simply digging the right rail into the water moving up the face, and stopping your sideways slide toward the beach..... you simply "slow down" and go "up" to the top
Once at the top, you disengage your right rail, and angle the bottom of the board flat (relative to the wave face) and release from the stationary water so you can fall back down

Confused yet?  ;D

Turning is simply "engaging" a rail, by digging into the water, and allowing the board to "grab" or "release" the stationary water.

A "carving" turn carries more speed forward than a weak turn.
To "carve", you must leave the comfort of balance
You must commit your body past the rail of the board.
Done correctly... your feet will transfer your weight on the board to "tilt" the board to match your new body angle (relative to water surface)

Centrifugal force keeps your weight pressing down on the board an allows you to "balance" as the board carves a turn, that brings it back under you.
If you do not commit the rail, as much as you commit your body.... you will simple fall over.
Like riding a bike too slowly a you turn..... your body and the bike lean with matching angle, at sufficient speed and magically, you don't fall over..... you turn and bing the bike back under your body. Voila'...

Surfing is simply, a series of falls and turns..... how you do them becomes your style.
"Pumping" is just linking small "falls" and "climbs" in a row to generate speed..... like pumping a skateboard across a flat parking lot.

The harder you carve.... the more "G" force you generate to carry into your next move.

A cutback, is simply using your speed to turn from a flatter part of the wave, back to the steeper part of the wave.

Fall down.... go back up.... fall down again.
Repeat.

add commitment....
add style

ALL surfing comes from your mind.....the body simply does what it is told.

Now.... go find your style...... and be ballsy........ no surfer ever got good by being timid.

PonoBill

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2015, 11:19:13 AM »
Good way to think about things, though not technically 100 percent correct. For example, a surfer cutting straight across the face isn't falling, but moves fast. the acceleration from gravity is 32 feet per second per second. If all we were doing is falling we'd only be going 4 feet per second after the first half second. That's called "missing the wave" which is traveling at 30 feet per second.

Generally it's a fine way to explain things, but you shoved hard on my geek button when you used the term "centrifugal force". which will cause any true geek to twitch uncontrollably.

Jorge, for me the key to cross stepping forwards is to step back with my front foot first. Otherwise the first step is too long and I get my feet tangled.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supthecreek

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Re: Can ride down the line....whats next?
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2015, 11:40:29 AM »
ha ha.... guilty... not a geek, that's for sure, but.....

Surfing isn't science.... it's art.
The mind conceives and the body paints.

let your mind flow  :)

 


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