Author Topic: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?  (Read 13926 times)

Off-Shore

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I think it was DJ who coined the word "downbreezing", which refers to downwinding in winds that don't get you up on a (consistent) plane, or need a lot of effort to do so.

For most downwind nutters, doing a downbreezer, is... well.. frustrating and hard work... but the reality is there are way more downbreezing days than there are downwinding days in any one year... and you get an amazing and fun work out chasing those bumps.

Here, in our summer, we rarely get winds above 25kph / 15mph, and so it's downbreezer time. We get out and make a plan on how to get from A to B. Here the winds turn from our usual Easterlies to Southerlies, so there is a whole lot of fun new logistics to figure out too.

So the questions are

1. What is the best board type for a downbreezer?
2. What is the best paddle technique for downbreezing?
3. Any special considerations to find best wind/glides (e.g. paddle closer to shore (see 1:20 in vid below))?

Here is a quick vid of a downbreezer yesterday.. using a borrowed 6 year old 14' Naish Glide V1 in a southerly, to one of Hong Kong's most beautiful and remote beaches, Tai Long Wan... Paddle out and a boat back.

https://youtu.be/aqEKZ00lgco
Just shows you: a 6 year old board can still rock..


« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 09:09:30 AM by Off-Shore »
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/HksupaHk_SUP_and_Downwinding

PonoBill

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2015, 09:17:22 AM »
Good choice as long as there's swell. the old Glide catches short period swell on autopilot. Horrid flatwater board, but as long as there's a bump, they work. Not super fast on the big days either. You're in the sweet spot. For light wind with decent swell you need rocker that matches the swell (since you're not going to plane). Shallow water is fine since the shallow water drag will be overcome by the steeper wave face and better energy transfer. You're not going to be able to railroad bumps--both the shallow water drag and the board rocker work against that, but you can stay solidly in the power. Long glides, albeit slow. Paddle technique is go hard to get into a bump, then rest and ride. You aren't going to railroad no matter what you do, so relax and enjoy the ride.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Board Stiff

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2015, 12:52:51 PM »
SIC Bullet V2 is a nice downbreezer board.  Picks up little bumps with ease,  and isn't affected much by quartering wind and chop (or even head-on, slop,  when earning the downbreezer!).

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Just Cruising

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2015, 01:16:05 PM »
I have been to Hong Kong for a few days on a stopover but never realized how beautiful it could be.  Thanks for sharing your videos.

I heard the ACE sets the standard in marginal conditions and the production 14 Bullet V2 is reasonable too, but no first hand experience.  I am actually saving up for a board for these downbreezers so very interested in other peoples opinions on this.

The new Naish Glide DJ gave us a peek of could be interesting.  I am a fan of purpose built board rather than all rounders so its good to see Naish (probably) coming out with a new DW specific board.

 

pdxmike

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2015, 01:55:11 PM »
I still enjoy my old Glide. You can lash extra clothes, snacks etc. to the underside of the nose to keep them dry and out of the way until you need them.

PonoBill

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2015, 04:50:40 PM »
I lent mine to Cameron Healey to do the distance race at the BOP. I'm pretty sure he's waiting for some way to get even.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Off-Shore

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2015, 05:10:27 PM »
I have been to Hong Kong for a few days on a stopover but never realized how beautiful it could be.  Thanks for sharing your videos.

I heard the ACE sets the standard in marginal conditions and the production 14 Bullet V2 is reasonable too, but no first hand experience.  I am actually saving up for a board for these downbreezers so very interested in other peoples opinions on this.


JC. Next time your in town, PM me! Always fun paddling with visitors who are passing through. We are blessed with all year round paddling and some amazing and extensive country parks where building is not permitted or severely restricted.

I have not been on a SB Ace for a long time, but think it would be perfect fore these conditions.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2015, 05:24:20 PM by Off-Shore »
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/HksupaHk_SUP_and_Downwinding

Blue crab

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2015, 07:30:05 PM »
We get 15-20 northerlies many afternoons in Seattle and it sort of drives me nuts.  There is enough push to get dozens of mini glides, but real surf able swells pop up only several times per run.  While these are not my favorite conditions by any means, I think going out on these days really helps with timing on bigger days.  Moreover, these are our most common set of summer conditions and the scenery is off the charts, so I hit it all the time.

I favor boards with just a touch of rocker in these lighter conditions.  The Naish 2014 LE JAV seems to do extremely well as does the Bullet V2. I have the most success on my King's AC Elite. I have learned that part of the trick in lighter winds is to look in a 180 degree arc for larger bumps which are few and far between.  The King's board has a thin but wide tail. It is therefore easy to do a quick 90 degree buoy turn, sprint laterally to the swell and catch something 20 yards to the right or left. It also surfs really well for a flat water shape. Great upwind too.

Off-Shore

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2015, 10:12:36 AM »

I have learned that part of the trick in lighter winds is to look in a 180 degree arc for larger bumps which are few and far between. The King's board has a thin but wide tail. It is therefore easy to do a quick 90 degree buoy turn, sprint laterally to the swell and catch something 20 yards to the right or left.

B.C. That is something I have to try. What I find is in downbreezer conditions I'm focussing more on keeping the momentum up, which means narrowing the field of focus, but looking out in front to find where to link to with minimum of effort, rather than to the sides.. Interesting..

The other thing I've noticed is that in these lighter wind conditions the bigger waves come BEFORE the wind comes. So as soon as I start feeling bigger waves coming through, I know 15-30 seconds later the wind will pick up, even if it is a just a short gust.. Well that's what I think seems to happen...
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/HksupaHk_SUP_and_Downwinding

Eagle

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2015, 10:56:36 AM »
We try to stand well forward to pearl the nose - then just before going under quarter across the wave at max power.  Most times we can get a few extra glides and can even plane a bit which makes the run more fun.  We also look to the side to see where the biggest swell is when the wind is light.

In 10 kts light air we use our Touring Carbon because it planes fast down a bump with its low drag pintail and touch of rocker.  In 15 kts full whitecaps the planted Bullet 14V2 is money - and in 20+ kts steep short period swell we prefer the slender nose surfy M-14.

Our downbreeze conditions often change within an hour and can increase to 25+ knots.  We had this play out the past weekend on our standard 11 mile inflow run.  Grin value always maxes when wind pushes 20+ and you are on full plane - crazy good fun slamming over wind swells with the M-14.  :)






Fast is FUN!   8)
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Argosi

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2015, 07:16:40 AM »
I have been to Hong Kong for a few days on a stopover but never realized how beautiful it could be.  Thanks for sharing your videos.

I heard the ACE sets the standard in marginal conditions and the production 14 Bullet V2 is reasonable too, but no first hand experience.  I am actually saving up for a board for these downbreezers so very interested in other peoples opinions on this.

The new Naish Glide DJ gave us a peek of could be interesting.  I am a fan of purpose built board rather than all rounders so its good to see Naish (probably) coming out with a new DW specific board.

The Starboard Ace Is the best board for marginal conditions that I've tried. Bit of a learning curve but it catches bumps and glides much better than most boards . I don't know of anything faster in 20mph or less.

DavidJohn

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2015, 02:16:30 PM »
I agree with Pono and A10.. I've done heaps of downwinders where the wind have turned into a light breeze and the original Glide sucks in those conditions.. It's not until there's steep'ish waves to surf that that board shines.. and light winds usually mean no steep waves.. The best board out there for a downbreezer is the Ace for sure but they are like standing in a canoe.. (yuck) ..and the next best thing for downbreezers are flat water race boards IMO.. The new Jav's do very well and also boards like the Allstar.. Also boards like the Falcon and DC/NSP's with their Ace like nose seem to go well in downbreeze conditions.. It will be interesting to see how the new DW specific Allstar goes in lightwind conditions with its W bottom and Ace like front end.. I paddled it on flat water and felt great..

Eagle

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2015, 06:45:17 PM »
Was out on a double DW today and the Bullet 14V1 did fantastic in winds under 15 kts with whitecaps.  The nose rocker and double concave really seem to make that board skatey and plane on every wave.  Very very fun.  Will try a 14V1 with steering next time.  But really any board does ok in downbreeze conditions.  Even one of our crew used a SIC inflatable last DW.

The pintail Ace is definitely very fast.  Pintails are very low drag but can get a bit tippy if you need to get back over the fin.  Getting a good line to DW we sometimes have to paddle across swell chop and side slop so we generally prefer a bit wider tail to stand on.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

XLR8

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2015, 06:55:53 PM »
I've had a few fun downbreezers here on Lake Michigan this early summer.  We haven't had any blasting wind conditions recently but we do get consistent 10-15 mpoh winds with stronger gusts and that makes for some fun runs.

Although I might paddle my old model 14' Glide or one of my custom downwind boards, I most often use my race boards for light  downwinders.  Here's a couple clips from a recent run:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kQ5Fg3q96E

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua0OwiPMfOQ

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clay

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Re: Downbreezing vs Downwinding. Equipment and technique differences?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2015, 04:44:16 PM »
Hi,

Thanks for starting this thread, the run near my house is often in the downbreeze category with wind in the low to mid teens.  Very interested in hearing more comments.  I'm a bigger guy and most of the mentioned boards are to tippy for me, I suspect a wider version of the bullet v2 would be the call for me, I hope to try the Ace or Fanatic some day.

Technique:  I have found going on a ebb tide (current going opposite the wind swell) helps a lot.  Also on my run there are plenty of spots where the water is only a couple feet deep and the bumps get steeper and easier to catch and ride.  I often paddle perpendicular or at a 45 degree angle to the swell and hunt/wait for the bigger bumps.  Standing closer to the nose and only stepping back a half step or so helps me get more/longer rides.  Paddling really really hard is sometimes the only way I catch bumps in these conditions.

In this video it was mid teens, ebb tide, and I was mostly in shallow water:
https://www.facebook.com/clay.schmitz/videos/vb.1564381389/10203886486593608/
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 04:55:39 PM by clay »
Aloha, I welcome and appreciate all responses of positivity and good feeling.

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