shape and bottom discussion

[OUTSIDEWAVE]

I keep playing with the idea of a new board.I can't really afford one  right now but it doesn't stop me from  thinking about a  new design. So I would like to hear form you all what you think  a great design is. Notice I didn't say  best. because one mans treasure is anothers trash.

 On thing I have been thinking of is   for the bottom  single concave  in the middle flowing to double concave a the tail but putting the double concaves on v plane.   is that under stable?    I think maybe chined rails.  and a roughly parallel rail shape may be  with  s-rails  to thin the rail.  I am not sure what do about the nose shape  rounded too pointed or something else,  or the transition from the nose to the  single concave in the  center  of the board.
 
is anyone riding a  concave nose that flows  all the way back to the tail?

How many are riding v bottoms that transition to the  concave in the tail   or  flat bottoms that transition to conceives in the tail.

[surfcowboy]

I'd love to see that... but I ain't shaping it.

[supsurf-tw]

You're describing a popular bottom for prone boards. It's a very good bottom, however with the width of a SUP you have to be careful with single concaves as there's so much width that the big concave tends to get so much water flowing through the middle of the board that it can become hard to get it to release at speed. The chines help. If you DO go with a single concave it has to be minimal. A good approach that I use on my SUP's is to put a double concave inside of the single. This provides the benefit of the concave's speed while breaking up the water flow into 2 smaller concave surfaces so you don't get that lock up. This is a very fast and very alive bottom. The tail V will be debatable depending on rocker and tail shape

[PonoBill]

I'm generally not a big fan of V in a board, though my beloved 10'4" has some before the finbox. I think the fact that it goes flat at the fins alleviates that feeling of clicking between a locked in left or right. I also think concave in a SUP has to be subtle. I have a SUP with a bottom shape like a Stewart noserider (big single concave in the nose, going to double, going to V) that can't get out of it's own way.

[magentawave]

subscribed

[OUTSIDEWAVE]

it is also very interesting to me.  I normally ride a board with a lot of v I have for years form  my infiiniti cluster   that has about a 1/2 inch of v across the bottom  at he fins. Faster turning 10 4 I ever rode. to   my aipa's Palos with lot of v across the tail.    Because sups are wide I was  wondering   why WORKS REALLY WELL  through the mid section   bottom? 
 and what do you do with the nose bottom     
1 Concave  to flat middle bottom or very slight v bottom.1/8"  total 
2 flat nose bottom to flat  middle to concaves ( 2 ) at the tail.
3  flat althea way through to a twin concave tail?

[OUTSIDEWAVE]

You're describing a popular bottom for prone boards. It's a very good bottom, however with the width of a SUP you have to be careful with single concaves as there's so much width that the big concave tends to get so much water flowing through the middle of the board that it can become hard to get it to release at speed. The chines help. If you DO go with a single concave it has to be minimal. A good approach that I use on my SUP's is to put a double concave inside of the single. This provides the benefit of the concave's speed while breaking up the water flow into 2 smaller concave surfaces so you don't get that lock up. This is a very fast and very alive bottom. The tail V will be debatable depending on rocker and tail shape

how does that  work double concaves on a single concave?

 what if you had 2 concaves slight maybe an 1/8 inch   kinda far apart in the mid section of the board  but narrower than the tail so that the trend of the concaves is  flairs a the tail.  Between the concaves  there is maybe withe flat or slight v less than 1/8    towards a flat nose or even a slightly concave nose..
maybe up  int mid section the concaves are broader and as they  trend toward the tail they get   narrower and deeper.  sort of bonzer ish but much more subdued?


 How would that work? 

[mrbig]

Belly convex entry to single concave to double concave to hard v right through to the tail. WORKZ! Ask  Dave Daum!!

Eliminate the entry convex if you want max stability!

Dead man  talkin'! Hehehe..

[Biggreen]

Hey could we get a little more explanation from you guys in the know on V in the tail.  Can it be detrimental because it slows the board down? Not really necessary? Or is it just the 100th monkey thing? Love some help in this.

[Fog City Rider]

Also subscribed.  This is really interesting for less experienced surfers like me.  Although I imagine only with experience can one really understand how the bottom shape translates to how he/she's feeling on a wave. 

I have two 9'0 longboard style SUPs, one with very pronounced bottom characteristics & one that is very subtle.  I like how one feels on a wave more than the other, but can't really put my finger on why. 

/m

[supsurf-tw]

Also subscribed.  This is really interesting for less experienced surfers like me.  Although I imagine only with experience can one really understand how the bottom shape translates to how he/she's feeling on a wave. 

I have two 9'0 longboard style SUPs, one with very pronounced bottom characteristics & one that is very subtle.  I like how one feels on a wave more than the other, but can't really put my finger on why. 

/m

Tail V or lack of is dependent on several other design factors. Rocker will normally determine if the V is necessary or not

[bajasurf]

I am the man out.  I love V all through the board.  It sets up the board on rail all the time.  If you have a wide SUP with the proper rocker n rails, your board should be super fast, and you should be looking to slow the board down a bit with control, in comes V...  You surf the rails most of the time, and if your board is slow, its usually at the rails and rocker...Just my 2 cents, which aint worth much.

[Biggreen]

I am the man out.  I love V all through the board.  It sets up the board on rail all the time.  If you have a wide SUP with the proper rocker n rails, your board should be super fast, and you should be looking to slow the board down a bit with control, in comes V...  You surf the rails most of the time, and if your board is slow, its usually at the rails and rocker...Just my 2 cents, which aint worth much.

I definitely get the overall design aspect dictates what works, and all parts work in conjunction, but baja your 2 cents are worth a lot. That's a great explanation. My waves are generally slow so I like a faster board.  I board I built with no V but with a channel is fast on my waves, which I love. When I took that board to Mexico, man it was FAST, almost too fast. Not having the experience and surf background of you guys puts me in with Fog City. Just learning as we go, without enough time in the water to feel the subtleties. Thanks to you and TW for your 2 cents.  Helped a lot!

[mrbig]

The double concave to hard v all the way to the tail is one way to make a very large SUP (compared to a much smaller surfboard) fast and loose. Tail rocker is obviously a huge part of that equation as well.

The location and length of the spine are crucial to get it to work properly!

Starboard suddenly added v at the tail to their Pro boards to solve some issues with the single mono concave approach (stability being one, lack of acceleration another, and turn initiation being a third!)

[supsurf-tw]

Starboard suddenly added v at the tail to their Pro boards to solve some issues with the single mono concave approach (stability being one, lack of acceleration another, and turn initiation being a third!)

single concave in a board as wide as a SUP is not a good idea. Way too sticky. This where the double concave really shines.