Any one using the festool Ro150 Feq sander

[LaPerouseBay]

i think I'm going to go with the RO 150 and the ctl midi vac and then use a dust cyclone to take the bulk of the material away from the main bag. I will get all three sanding pads and then maybe the long life bag also and whatever discs i need. some one has mentioned to maybe go larger on the vac hose but i will try the stock and maybe have a play with using a slinky hose that i got for my skill 100 that is now redundant. From the rest of the research I have done I'm quite excited to get my hands on one, which will hopefully be Tuesday!

Hey supuk, I'm a woodworker and have a few suggestions.  It may save you a lot of money.  First off, you should be asking these questions over on a shaping forum.  I don't know where they are, but I think 'swaylock's' is a big one.  Woodworking tools and shaping have a great deal of crossover, but you should ask the experts over there, not here.

Short story about that subject;  Years ago I was at Bill Foote's house, taking delivery of a new board.  I had just purchased the big Festool planer and took it to Bill to show him the machine.  Like all Festool stuff, it's amazing.  Anyhow, Bill showed me his assortment of planers and the modifications he set up for vacuuming, etc.  His mods were very inexpensive, extremely practical and very effective.  I won't go into the mods here, that was about planers anyhow.  Your sanding needs are another subject.

You may not want to get that vacuum.  It's very expensive, very modular.  A specialty tool for traveling.  Silly to park one in a shop forever.  You can use any vacuum with an off the shelf switch for the auto power on to the tool.  Swaylocks probably has an even better idea. 

I hope that big sander is suitable for what you need.  We do mostly flat surfaces in woodworking.  That is an extremely powerful tool, be careful on any type of curved surface.  I doubt you will ever need to engage that gearbox. 

It's a great tool, but I'd go to swaylock's.  PB is a great guy, but his repairs are butt ugly.  If he gets a Festool, it's likely to be tossed in a corner and forgotten.  Or, left out in the rain and run over by a car.  Sad, but true.

[TallDude]

I've been carpenter / woodworker most of my life, and I think there are the type of people who think the Unisaw is the holy grail of table saws. I've used one and they are really nice, but my old portable with out feed table attachment does the job. If you're in high production mode, your worker's will just brake the tools because they don't own them. If you're not in production mode, then slow down a enjoy the craft. CNC machines increase your production, but take the fun out of it for me.
So who will be using the Festool?

[LaPerouseBay]

^That's the point.  Power tools are highly specialized for the location, precision, etc.  I don't know what supuk is doing, but I do know that there is no substitute for experience.  That's why I referenced Footie.  It's his trade.  He knows the tricks.  Swaylocks must have threads about sanders.

I recently set up a kitchen/laundry remodel for casework, cabinets and appliances that will run the better part of a million bucks.  My boss gave me autocad files from all the manufacturers, designers etc.  I made full scale templates. The tolerances for the ceiling soffit were + or - a sixteenth.  Typical drywall/corner beads/taping are too rough.  Hence, my soffits (and some wall sections) are faced with MDF - they will paint up real nice.  Dead square and on precise layout in all three dimensions. No small task with existing rough framing - simple with experience. 

We have a portable tablesaw on site and my boss has a unisaw in his shop.  Neither can compete with my track saw for sheet goods.  Nor can a set of paper drawings with an autocad file.

My point is to get advice from an expert in the field, for your application.  It's in my forum signature!

[supuk]

I have asked over on sway and the guys that have them seam to rate them very highly as would expect. I very much believe in you pay for what you get and i have always found that in the past. I upgraded a year of so ago from a cheap polisher to a dewalt which was about the best rotary i could find over here and the difference was huge and my the sounds from what i have heard this should be one step further. I am also the only one using my tools and i use them a lot (every day) for various things which is another reason i don't mind spending the cash no good ones if they are worth it and my work will improve as a result which was why i built the cnc and i think that has done the totally oppressive and has made me enjoy shaping more as it is a lot easier to be accurate and mean i can experiment super easily and not have to spend hours looking down the length of a 14' board to make sure it is perfectly cimetrical. 

[PonoBill]

It's a great tool, but I'd go to swaylock's.  PB is a great guy, but his repairs are butt ugly.  If he gets a Festool, it's likely to be tossed in a corner and forgotten.  Or, left out in the rain and run over by a car.  Sad, but true.

Hey! I resemble that remark. Like anyone who once made their living with tools, I'm actually much nicer to them than I am to other stuff.

And yes, my repairs are famously butt ugly. I've yet to actually finish one well enough to bother with paint. Seems pointless as brutal as I am to my boards. All that matters is that it doesn't change the shape, is strong, and doesn't leak. I generally get at least two out of those three. The epitome of my Frankenstein work so far is Boyum's two piece. I wonder when it's going to revert.

[TallDude]

^That's the point.  Power tools are highly specialized for the location, precision, etc.  I don't know what supuk is doing, but I do know that there is no substitute for experience.  That's why I referenced Footie.  It's his trade.  He knows the tricks.  Swaylocks must have threads about sanders.

I recently set up a kitchen/laundry remodel for casework, cabinets and appliances that will run the better part of a million bucks.  My boss gave me autocad files from all the manufacturers, designers etc.  I made full scale templates. The tolerances for the ceiling soffit were + or - a sixteenth.  Typical drywall/corner beads/taping are too rough.  Hence, my soffits (and some wall sections) are faced with MDF - they will paint up real nice.  Dead square and on precise layout in all three dimensions. No small task with existing rough framing - simple with experience. 

We have a portable tablesaw on site and my boss has a unisaw in his shop.  Neither can compete with my track saw for sheet goods.  Nor can a set of paper drawings with an autocad file.

My point is to get advice from an expert in the field, for your application.  It's in my forum signature!

Sounds like a nice job. You're in Hawaii and actually working? That's rare. I used to be part of the Hawaiian Steel Framing Alliance when they were ruining Ewa Beach. Being a framer, and a cad guy, I did panellized wall designs. The Hawaiian steel framers are good and can read panel plans. I started working with a San Diego company doing Mid-rise (6 story) panel designs. The union framers that did the install couldn't read panel plans and started taking the panels apart on the job. Idiot's! 100K dollar f-up in extras to fix it. I still swing a hammer on occasion, but drawing plans is easier on my body. 

I get your point about the experts, and Swaylock's is a great source for shaping. (Though it is kinda boring.) I'm a rookie hobbyist when it comes to glassing, but I learned from some guys that know what they are doing.  Where I live and grew up in Capo Beach, is some what notorious for the high concentration of famous shapers and glassers. Part of that is because this is where Hobie lived, and everyone worked for Hobie at some point. My neighbor Danny Brawner ran Hobie's glassing for over 30 years. He taught me how to glass and sand boards only a few years ago, but I've been around it my whole life. My older brother used to glass boards in our garage when I was a kid. When I glassed one of my unlimiteds my friend Vic helped me sand that board. He showed me how to change spray adhered pads in about 15 seconds. Between the two of us, we used about 40 sanding discs. He always hand sands the rails only. He's been sanding boards for almost 30 years now. That's all he does, OMG! He's sands for Lost, Bashams, Infinity, Stewart, etc. Everyone knows Vic. He has almost the exact same sander I have, and so does Danny.  Vic is sanding my unlimited in the picture below.

[TallDude]

I have asked over on sway and the guys that have them seam to rate them very highly as would expect. I very much believe in you pay for what you get and i have always found that in the past. I upgraded a year of so ago from a cheap polisher to a dewalt which was about the best rotary i could find over here and the difference was huge and my the sounds from what i have heard this should be one step further. I am also the only one using my tools and i use them a lot (every day) for various things which is another reason i don't mind spending the cash no good ones if they are worth it and my work will improve as a result which was why i built the cnc and i think that has done the totally oppressive and has made me enjoy shaping more as it is a lot easier to be accurate and mean i can experiment super easily and not have to spend hours looking down the length of a 14' board to make sure it is perfectly cimetrical.

If it works the best for you, then it's worth it. I personally don't like the vac hose getting in my way, that's why I like the whole shop air filters. I know what you mean about long race boards getting floppy when your trying to hand shape them. The CNC makes your life easier. Plus you don't have the luxury of a bunch of CNC places near you, like we SoCal people do.
If you are going with a hose system I agree with what others have said about going with simple fixed vac setup.

[TallDude]

There are a few key things that I learned from Vic that are unique to sanding boards (not wood):

1.) The epoxy builds up fast on the disc's. It's not visible at all. We sanded for about 2 to 3 minutes then change the disc. Vic showed me how to feel the board as you sand, and once you feel it getting warm on the area you just sanded, the disc is done. They looked like unused disc's we were throwing away. I got the feel after a while. I don't know the exact speed our sanders where running, but is set at 900 rpm. Mine is goes from 600 to 3000 rpm and I have it set at 2. The Festool Ro150 says it runs a max. rotary of 600 rpm, but it's only a 6" disc. The the speed eccentric is way too fast. I guess you don't use that mode?

2.) Touch the board with finger as a temperature probe. Do it repeatedly as you move and as an indicator of how fast you should move to keep the surface from getting too warm.

3.) Work a large area and constantly move.

4.) When changing sanding disc's, peal off as much as you can of the disc. There will be some backing paper that will remain, but not that much if you keep changing the disc's every few minutes. You spray some 3M 77 on the back of the disc, then slap it against the foam pad repeatedly. It will start to gum up with seconds. Give it it a quick eye ball alignment, and start sanding again. When your finished sanding, pull the disc off right away so the adhesive doesn't completely set.     

[PonoBill]

Is there a reason you don't like hook and loop? I've replaced the pads on my sanders with hook n loopers in most cases. I've had a hard time getting the right pad for the sanders I have, but they're easy to modify--it's just a matter of drilling and countersinking new holes. I don't see much price difference between sanding disks when I buy the big boxes.

I generally sand outdoors, but I have the luxury of an extra acre of empty land, the usual gorge winds, and industrial neighbors or empty land in every direction. I always wear a good mask, I have a friend who destroyed his lungs from sanding fiberglass and paint for twenty years. I have no desire to drag O2 bottles around.

Despite Larry's cautions I'm still gathering info on the Festool sander--pads and such, but I think he's right on about the vacuum system. I found this auto switch with a little research that will work fine. http://www.infinitytools.com/iVac-Automatic-Vacuum-Switch-Box/productinfo/115-100/  I have a number of shop vacs, one with a good HVAC system that should be fine for small particulate. I might add an electrostatic filtering system to the shop just because I get dust everywhere from all the other stuff I do.

The infinity tools guys also sell Mirka sanders, which are similarly priced to Festool. I'm still having sticker shock, but looking into my drawer full of sanders I don't use I'm wondering why.

[TallDude]

Is there a reason you don't like hook and loop? I've replaced the pads on my sanders with hook n loopers in most cases. I've had a hard time getting the right pad for the sanders I have, but they're easy to modify--it's just a matter of drilling and countersinking new holes. I don't see much price difference between sanding disks when I buy the big boxes.

I'm not against hook and loop disks. I have hook and loop random orbital sanders. My hand sanding foam block is a hook and loop too. It was more about me wanting to get what the main glaser / sanders where using. I looked at the models they were using, and asked why? The 8" angle polisher with a 5/8" thread Makita was the most common. The 8" Flexpad sets with the 5/8" thread was and is still the standard in the more than 5 or so glassing shops I was in. At the surf supply stores they have the 'Flexpad' sets in 6", but I don't see any vacuum hole versions or a hook and loop for Flexpad? That is probably why I don't see them being used by the production guys.  They also come in a 14 mm thread for Euro. The 8.5" glue on sanding discs are pretty much the same price as the 6" hook and loop discs for a box of 50.

This is from the Flexpad site:

 Soft density Yellow/White foam : When  sanding with this pad, the cutting areas is transferred out more towards the edge of the pad versus the larger contact area of the All yellow Pad. Because the White top has a more rigid foam top, the cutting edge therefore is supported more  towards the outside of the pad. Because  of this reduced cutting area when sanding, you don’t need to place as much pressure on the outside of the pad to sand scratches out. Operate this at 1750 RPM

The standard Flexpad hub , is a 5/8-11 female thread which is usually used in the United States and on American made machines.

8 inch Flexpad is the standard size used in the Surfboard Industry for sanding surfboards.  With a bigger area, the 8 inch pad covers more area when sanding. Making large jobs faster to complete .

 The 6 inch FlexPad offers a smaller area to sand with. Excellent  for ding  repair or sanding around  fins. With the smaller surface area of the 6 inch pad, you can use it in tighter areas when you wouldn’t normally be able to use a 8 inch flexpad.


BTW, that switch box is very cool. I could use that for sure.

[Dwight (DW)]

I don't like the loss of feel when vacuum is on a sander. If I could get my new shaping and sanding room setup with sufficient air exchange to keep it clear, I'll drop using a vacuum for anything other than floor cleanup.

[Dwight (DW)]

I have a Delta ceiling mount workshop air cleaner that works great.

That sounds like a great idea for my new dirty room (shaping and sanding room).

How quickly would you say the room clears up (to the point you can remove mask) once you turn the sander off? My room will be 8 x 9 x 18 ft.

Thanks. Great stuff here.

[supuk]

I don't like the loss of feel when vacuum is on a sander. If I could get my new shaping and sanding room setup with sufficient air exchange to keep it clear, I'll drop using a vacuum for anything other than floor cleanup.

the festoon blows as well as sucks so assume it near cancels out. Sounds like you can get a 15day trial which would be good. there is also a demo day at the end of the week not far away so may take a look there.

[TallDude]

I have a Delta ceiling mount workshop air cleaner that works great.

That sounds like a great idea for my new dirty room (shaping and sanding room).

How quickly would you say the room clears up (to the point you can remove mask) once you turn the sander off? My room will be 8 x 9 x 18 ft.

Thanks. Great stuff here.

I'll say pretty quick. I haven't paid that much attention to it to put a time frame on it. I notice when it's not doing it's job and that's because the filters plugged. I buy a bulk of the replacement external air filters, and occasionally replace the internal filter.  It pretty much keeps up with me sanding by myself. In that picture I took of Vic sanding my unlimited, we were actually sanding together on opposite sides of the board. I just stopped for a moment to take the picture. With two of us sanding, the air cleaner couldn't keep up. So I opened my shop doors and put some fans at the doors. The workshop air filter works much better with the doors closed. It creates it's own circulation for the space. I'll have to look into the proper or recommended placement for multiple units. I'm sure there is something on the web. With two of them running, you could probably have someone standing near you while you're sanding without them getting dusted. They aren't as loud as my vacuums either. You can easily talk over the sound they make. I'm with you, I'd rather buy another workshop air filter than a bunch of vacuum hoses all over. I have a good Sears 6 hp shop vac and a Sears 3.5 hp shop vac's with hose attachments to my planer and router that I run when shaping. I had a big squirrel cage dust collection system years ago, but I use my shop in so many different ways it just got in the way. 

[magentawave]

I have never used that particular tool but a cabinetmaker friend of mine has one and says it's the best. He said the vacuum on it works excellent too. If you plan on building boards regularly, and have the money to burn, then it's a good choice.

Has anyone found a cheap source for 8" wide hook and loop OR sticky backed sanding discs that can be purchased in small quantities? Everything I saw so far was around $35 for a bunch of the same grit and since I don't plan on building a lot of boards I'd prefer to buy much smaller quantities.