Author Topic: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals  (Read 8193 times)

juandoe

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
    • View Profile
Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« on: May 24, 2015, 06:37:52 AM »
Turns out, I am going to be in Maui during the Maui to Molokai race.  I am a strong flat water paddler but don't really know how to surf.  Toying with the idea of trying the race (with a chase boat).  Is it stupid to even consider?  The distance doesn't concern me.  I just don't want to end up in the water the whole time.  Figure it would be a hell of an experience. 

PonoBill

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 25864
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2015, 07:06:38 AM »
Get a few Malikos in and you'll have a better idea, but I'd say crazy is an understatement.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

starman

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 869
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2015, 08:07:39 AM »
I'm no Maui local but the Maliko run is done by 12 year old kids. The channel crossing, depending on conditions, is a completely different animal. For some one with no surf experience saying it would be stupid to consider is an understatement. If you were to get separated from your board there is a very good chance the chase boat won't be able to find you. Even sitting on your board they may not see you. Take a boat ride for the race. It will help you decide if you should do next years race.

headmount

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 5750
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2015, 01:45:04 PM »
I'm no Maui local but the Maliko run is done by 12 year old kids. The channel crossing, depending on conditions, is a completely different animal. For some one with no surf experience saying it would be stupid to consider is an understatement. If you were to get separated from your board there is a very good chance the chase boat won't be able to find you. Even sitting on your board they may not see you. Take a boat ride for the race. It will help you decide if you should do next years race.

Great advice.  You might be OK but do you want to find out the hard way?  There's two things that are vastly different than flat water, elevation change and moving your feet.  And it can get very hot out there.  You're humping and it feels like the Sahara.  Prone to sea sickness?  If conditions are great everyone is stoked but even that stretch has off days and races are notorious for dealing from the bottom of the deck.

What kind of board do you have lined up?  Have you ever used a rudder board?  If you're concerned about falling don't go too narrow if you use a 14.  Good luck.  Check in with us when you get here.  And if you're bound and determined to go, get here early and pound out some Maliko runs.  Like Starman posted it ain''t the same but it'll at least get you in the ballpark.

covesurfer

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1936
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2015, 06:03:14 PM »
What those guys said ^^^^. Yep, what they said, to the third power!

Flatwater paddling and going in the waves are totally different. Your flatwater paddling will help you out but getting your feet under you in moving ocean conditions is not a given. Especially on your first few runs. Try to get some downwind experience in before you get to Maui. If that's not possible, then paddle your race board in all the conditions you can and the worse they are, the better the training for balance. Even on relatively calm days, the ocean is not at all like paddling on flat, protected water.

Before we moved to Maui, I guided people on downwind runs in the Columbia Gorge, on the Washington/Oregon border. I had many experiences with flatwater paddlers jumping into Viento runs on windy days and realizing that those little whitecaps they saw from shore were 6 foot swells. Surprise, frustration, fatigue and finally, giving up, were the usual progression of steps once we launched. Going Pocahontas (paddling on your knees) was the eventual result. Fortunately, on the Viento run, you can hug the Oregon shoreline and greatly reduce the intensity of the conditions.

On a Maliko run, once you're out, you are going to have to stay with it. There is no where to hide. Yeah, plenty of people do Maliko's and survive with a great adventure under their belt. Depending on your skills and determination, and the conditions, doing Maliko might work out fine for you. It's impossible to know how you'd do without seeing you in rough water. But I also know people with some significant experience that have had some true drama on Maliko, including a friend that lost his board (earlier this month) due to a snapped leash. The leash break resulted from getting hit by a breaking wave, which resulted from not realizing that he was in an area subject to intermittent, large, breaking waves. Maliko is best attempted for the first time with a guide and/or coach and when conditions are appropriate for your skill level.

A channel crossing? I really, really would discourage it. It's possible that you might successfully pull it off, especially if it ends up being a really mild day. But, honestly, it's a little like someone from Wisconsin that is a great XC skier deciding they are going to British Columbia or Alaska to heli-ski. A channel crossing really should be undertaken with the right skills and experience. Even trying to get a board and paddler on a chase boat in rock n' roll conditions is an extremely challenging and potentially dangerous undertaking.

My recommendation would be to make some short downwind forays before even jumping into a Maliko run. You can paddle inside the reefs from Paia Bay down to Kanaha, although you should have someone with you the first time that is familiar with the water. However, that is an almost ideal beginners run, again, depending on conditions. Another suitable beginner option is to paddle from the Cove in Kihei, down to the Mana Kai or the Andaz resorts. If you really feel good, you could go all the way to Polo Beach. Again, it's really a good idea to have someone that knows the water join you on your first run or two and help you assess the conditions before you launch.

Doing the channel does require an escort boat. Even if there is the option of not having a boat, you would be certifiably crazy to not use one. They are going to charge you $600 to $1000. There is a 5 hour time cut-off to do the race. You need to figure out whether you will be able to get yourself and your board back to Maui on your chase boat or make other arrangements. You won't know the line to take and it is likely that you will lose all sight of other paddlers. Is your boat going to be willing and able to point you the right way? Whatever you decide, at least you're getting some feedback.

If you are wanting to paddle when you get here, it would be smart to start calling around NOW to reserve a rental board. The weeks leading up to the M2M and Molokai 2 Oahu races are very busy here and rental downwind boards get very scarce.




« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 06:38:05 PM by covesurfer »

supdiscobay

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2015, 06:29:25 PM »
Here is how to save yourself time and frustration.

Get a hold of Headmount and set up a guided Maliko run or two.  My son and I did that three years ago and we made several runs with him back then.  Knowing the safe lines and where to cross the reef are key to that run. 
This past November, I did a few southside runs from the Boardwalk near Maalaea to Makena Landing.  Headmount, PB, Cove, Southside and many others were there.  It looks easy, but if the wind is offshore, it can be deadly.  These guys are a great group of paddlers and they are fast.  They do it a lot and you will learn very quickly.  If you are up to it, you will know, and believe me they will give you honest feedback even if its not what you want to hear. 

And of course, as everyone has said, line up a board early.
8'5" Starboard Pocket Rocket, 8'0" Kazuma Fugu custom,  8'10" Kings Sidewinder, 10' Starboard Noserider, 14' BARK Carbon Dominator, SIC F16 V3, KeNalu and Quickblade paddles, 19' Eaton Prone, 67" Goode 9700

Bean

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 4211
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2015, 07:12:19 PM »
Here is a fun video from 2012 about a first time M2O crossing

SUPcheat

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2677
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2015, 07:58:25 PM »
Famous last words:  "It looks generally peaceful out there."
2013 Fanatic Prowave LTD 9'3"x30.5x@134L
Sunova Speeed 8'10"x29.12@131L
Sunova Flow 8'7"x30.25"@121L
Carbon 9.3x32@163L Hammer
Me: 6'1"@230 lbs 68 years old

SUPcheat

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2677
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2015, 07:58:56 PM »
Duplicate post, sorry.
2013 Fanatic Prowave LTD 9'3"x30.5x@134L
Sunova Speeed 8'10"x29.12@131L
Sunova Flow 8'7"x30.25"@121L
Carbon 9.3x32@163L Hammer
Me: 6'1"@230 lbs 68 years old

juandoe

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 771
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2015, 08:06:22 PM »
Thanks for the advice.  I am lining up some runs with Jeremy Riggs for the trip.  Probably wouldn't have time to get it all lined up this year anyway.  Maybe next.

Off-Shore

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1663
    • View Profile
    • HksupaHK SUP and Downwinding
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2015, 09:28:06 PM »
Thanks for the advice.  I am lining up some runs with Jeremy Riggs for the trip.  Probably wouldn't have time to get it all lined up this year anyway.  Maybe next.

JD, Jeremy will look after you well. I went out to Maui 3 years ago with the idea I would paddle from Maui to Molokai on the F16 board I had ordered from SIC, with little open ocean experience. I managed to arrange everything including two days with Jeremy, and then on the third or fourth day to do the crossing with Ekolu Kalama.. I had paddled with a good friend who has done the M2O multiple times and was the first person to paddle around Hong Kong Island, who had helped me set this up, and he had told me don't worry, it is all downhill.. you'll be fine...

Well fortunately for me there was no wind, and I spent two days with Jeremy on a Bullet 17 doing drills in the surf, and I sucked... Jeremy was incredibly patient with me, but he flatly told me it was a bad idea to do the M2M.

I ended up taking the plane to Molokai to meet up with Ekolu there who still paddled the crossing with one bottle of water, and no wind. I can't remember how long it took him, but it was a long long time. He told me he did not catch one single glide the whole way across..

Watching the vid above of the two Canadians doing M2O, is how it was for me the first times out, and that would have been me if I'd done the M2M.

Preparing for your time with Jeremy, I agree with Cove, is to paddle in the harshest conditions you can find on the tippiest board you have. One trick I have found is interesting to make it harder, is to take a cap and pull the visor right down over your brow so you cannot see the horizon, and can only see a little in front of you. The reduced vision and lack of horizon is surprising how much it affects balance. I have also seen a Surkski video where they use this weight on the end of a pole that is suctioned cupped to the deck to simulate open water conditions / tippiness for paddling practicing in flat water.

Jeremy also gave me some drills to do, which is to paddle in surf stance, walk to the back of the board and back up, switch sides, and also to practice getting on and off my board 20+ times every session. Ask him for the drills. It will help to speed up the process when you get there.

The other advice I was given was to do 50 burpees a day which I did for 2 weeks before going to Maui along with my usual exercise. Made getting back on after falling off much easier and increased my endurance..
SB 9' x 33' x 4.1" - RPC 9'8" iSUP - SB All-Star 12'6" - Blue Planet Bump Rider 14 - SB Ace 14 x 27 - RedAir 14' Elite Race - SIC Bullet 14v1 TWC - SICMaui F16v3 Custom

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/HksupaHk_SUP_and_Downwinding

supdiscobay

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 797
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2015, 10:53:42 PM »
Great video!!!
Did you see the shark at the 38:26 mark, when the board was upside down?
8'5" Starboard Pocket Rocket, 8'0" Kazuma Fugu custom,  8'10" Kings Sidewinder, 10' Starboard Noserider, 14' BARK Carbon Dominator, SIC F16 V3, KeNalu and Quickblade paddles, 19' Eaton Prone, 67" Goode 9700

SUPcheat

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2677
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2015, 11:21:36 PM »
The video is amazing.  I am surprised they made it.  I would have thought at least 6 months of training just to attempt.  Photography was also amazing and stimulated me to think about going over for a visit.

Of course, maybe they just rode the boat for some of the way and swore the driver to secrecy for the show.

It is easy to underestimate the task.  I remember daydreaming watching SUP from the Santa Cruz pier and thinking how that would be an easy, enjoyable way to tour the ocean LOL.

Hard to believe that in August I will have been doing this for three years and surfing on hardboards (not ISUP) for one year this month. Had our place in Santa Cruz for five years this month.

I would NEVER attempt any significant downwinder without doing quite a few baby ones first.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 11:45:48 PM by SUPcheat »
2013 Fanatic Prowave LTD 9'3"x30.5x@134L
Sunova Speeed 8'10"x29.12@131L
Sunova Flow 8'7"x30.25"@121L
Carbon 9.3x32@163L Hammer
Me: 6'1"@230 lbs 68 years old

Southbay

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 770
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2015, 11:48:29 PM »
Agree with everything said.  Love Cove's quote about the xcountry skier...that's a good comparison.

I think surfing knowledge is more important that paddling endurance for this sorta race.

First time I did M2M I was living in CA.  I was SUP surfing everyday for a few years, did a few flat water races, and then decided to the M2M.  I am from Maui, so I was familiar with the water, but had never done a downwind run.  I flew to Maui and rented a board from Zane.  14' no rudder Starboard boof nose (coast runner).  I did two Maliko runs and did fine.  I could keep up with my friend who was living on Maui and doing some downwinders, so I went and did the race.  Your paddling experience will help, but your legs are ALL that matters.  My legs were DEAD.  I could not surf right enough and no rudder made for a horrible long (under 5 hours but not by much) race.  As stated above you gotta move your feet fast, and when your legs are dead that is not easy.  It becomes is vicious cycle, can't move your feet because your so tired so you fall.  I have surfed my whole life, so I had some advantage in knowing where to be on the board.  That said it was the best thing I ever did and I ended up leaving a very good job to move back to Maui.  Was it smart, no.  Was it safe, no.  Was is fun...yes in a sort of masochistic sorta way, because of my lack of prep.

Long story short work your legs all you can.  squats, burpees, lunges, etc.  The surfing is great the last 12 miles, but the first 15 miles can be like a washing machine with 12 ft sets!

See you at Maliko!

 

Kieranrsup

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Crazy? Need some advice from some Maui locals
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2015, 12:55:21 AM »
I did the M2M for the first time last year and to be honest unless you have some decent ocean paddling experience it would probably not be advisable.
Now I'm far from being competitive with the fast guys n gals(it took me 4:26 last year) but in the two years prior to last year I had done at least a dozen ocean races here in Australia. (20 beaches, Doctor, surf ski ocean series etc)
Also our local coastline in Sydney's Northern beaches is a fantastic training ground as it is tough, back washy conditions most of the time.
However, the M2M still kicked my ass. I hadn't done any race longer than 27km until the 42km M2M. My legs were toast and cramping half way in.
I fell in at least a dozen times if not more. Probably more.
Not being familiar with the type of swells and wind you get out there really had me out of my comfort zone for about half the race.
The last 10km to 20km was my favourite bit despite not being very mobile or agile on my feet by this point.
I was very glad to get into the harbour and take 5mins to gather myself and my thoughts.
That said after the race and hanging out in the canoe Hale on Molokai, having a beer, a feed and chatting with all the other paddlers was such an awesome feeling!!

The suggestion of getting on a boat and seeing the race that way is a good one; there is always the local race on Molokai the next day, the M4M which is basically the last and best section of the M2M. About 16km I think?
Anyway, hope I've given you some good insights. :)
SIC custom hand shaped 17' x 25.5" V3 Bullet.
NSP DC 17'10" x 26" .
Starboard Ace 14 x 25".
Starboard Sprint 14 x 24".
JP 10' x 29"
Starboard Pro 8.0 x 29".
Starboard Pro 8' x 29".

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal